7.92mm Anti-Tank rifle
- Thread starter BlueTrain
- Start date
Mannlicher
New member
Bluetrain
do you mean the wholesale price, or the street price?
Mike Irwin
Staff
Here you go, from Wikipedia...
guntotin_fool
New member
I believe there was a finnish version too. a soumi or something. a 20 MM oerlikon necked down to like a 14.5 or a 12.7, was trying to find reference to it but I am upstairs and too long of a walk to the library. Ian Hogg wrote about it one of his books. Seemed on early WW2 tanks it would not always penetrate but would spall the inside of the armor enough to make it not a lot of fun. Was a very good killer of light vehicles, prime movers, transports etc.
I was at a gun show some time ago and there was a russian AT rifle on display. No price but sample ammo for collectors was priced at $100 per each. Barrel was at least 48 inches. and it had an articulated stock, so that recoil would drive the action down and away from the shooters face. The gun was very crude and seemed to just have a piece of truck tire as the absorber.
I was at a gun show some time ago and there was a russian AT rifle on display. No price but sample ammo for collectors was priced at $100 per each. Barrel was at least 48 inches. and it had an articulated stock, so that recoil would drive the action down and away from the shooters face. The gun was very crude and seemed to just have a piece of truck tire as the absorber.
One published source I have states that the Styer IWS2000 in 15.2mm (I know what a mm is) weighs 79.2 pounds, presumabl unloaded, because it appears to be a single shot weapon. This may be a different weapon than the one mentioned earlier, though the caliber is the same. In comparison, a Barrrett M82A1 weighs 30 pounds. All the 20mm weapons probably weigh over 50 pounds. And you thought a BAR was heavy.
The 15.2mm cartridge is a smoothbore and uses the discarding sabot principal.
These weapons all have the range without a doubt and really outclass all rifle caliber weapons. However, with extreme range weapons (when engaging man-sized targets), there is still a question of accuracy and uses like this would call for match-grade or otherwise select ammunition. Still, there is some potential in things like this, provided there were talented users and units willing to employ them to the best advantage.
I wouldn't want to be the one assigned to carry any of this stuff, however.
The 15.2mm cartridge is a smoothbore and uses the discarding sabot principal.
These weapons all have the range without a doubt and really outclass all rifle caliber weapons. However, with extreme range weapons (when engaging man-sized targets), there is still a question of accuracy and uses like this would call for match-grade or otherwise select ammunition. Still, there is some potential in things like this, provided there were talented users and units willing to employ them to the best advantage.
I wouldn't want to be the one assigned to carry any of this stuff, however.
There are two prototypes, I think the the earlier one is weighing much more than the 2nd prototype. However, the Steyr IWS or AMR is a semi-auto long recoil 5 shot with the magazine on the left(?) side.
Yeah, there is a 20mm south african AMR NTW 20 or however its called.
It uses the 20x83,5mm round, its weighing more than 57 pounds. Its brother chambered in the 14.5x114 has a shooting range of 2300+ metres.
Yeah, there is a 20mm south african AMR NTW 20 or however its called.
It uses the 20x83,5mm round, its weighing more than 57 pounds. Its brother chambered in the 14.5x114 has a shooting range of 2300+ metres.
Mike Irwin
Staff
The Finns used a homegrown 20mm anti-tank gun designed by Aimo Lahti and designated the L-39.
It was fairly successful against the older Soviet tanks, but once the T-34s and KV1s became available, the gun became obsolete against tanks, but was still used occasionally against lightly hardened emplacements.
It was reintroduced in modified form as an anti-aircraft gun against the IL-2 Stormoviks.
Originally it was just propped up on a stump and the gunner whanged away, but the modified form included a pintle mount and was modified so that it fired automatically from an open bolt.
It was fairly successful against the older Soviet tanks, but once the T-34s and KV1s became available, the gun became obsolete against tanks, but was still used occasionally against lightly hardened emplacements.
It was reintroduced in modified form as an anti-aircraft gun against the IL-2 Stormoviks.
Originally it was just propped up on a stump and the gunner whanged away, but the modified form included a pintle mount and was modified so that it fired automatically from an open bolt.
The Styer was described as a semi-automatic single shot in that the spent case is ejected, leaving it ready for the next cartridge to be manually inserted. It did not say if inserting a fresh cartridge tripped the mechanism to close by it self or if it had to be manually closed. But manual operation can be pretty quick anyway, even on a very large weapon, provided the mechanism is smooth and well made.
The same article also mentioned an SR-50 (.50-cal) from, I assume, Knight's Armament Company. It looked longer, heaver and a little ungainly but it says it doesn't weigh any more than the Barrett.
Again, I think there is the danger of assuming away the basic problem of hitting a small target (as an anti-personnel weapon) at ranges beyond 2,000 yards, besides which there is the basic issue of locating targets that far away. These are not weapons for just anybody. All the same, for certain uses, they would appear to be a useful addition to the selection of weapons in infantry units, and they are in fact now becoming widely issued, if what I have been told is true.
The same article also mentioned an SR-50 (.50-cal) from, I assume, Knight's Armament Company. It looked longer, heaver and a little ungainly but it says it doesn't weigh any more than the Barrett.
Again, I think there is the danger of assuming away the basic problem of hitting a small target (as an anti-personnel weapon) at ranges beyond 2,000 yards, besides which there is the basic issue of locating targets that far away. These are not weapons for just anybody. All the same, for certain uses, they would appear to be a useful addition to the selection of weapons in infantry units, and they are in fact now becoming widely issued, if what I have been told is true.
FirstFreedom
Moderator
I think I'd like to have one or two.
Sure is cool having the knowledge of the likes of Mike I. and 44 Amp around here - interesting stuff. Can you say 'overbore'? Squeezebores, eh? Why aren't these still in use today?
Mike Irwin
Staff
"The Styer was described as a semi-automatic single shot in that the spent case is ejected, leaving it ready for the next cartridge to be manually inserted. It did not say if inserting a fresh cartridge tripped the mechanism to close by it self or if it had to be manually closed."
The German PzB 38 employed that kind of mechanism. Upon firing the action opened and the case was ejected, and loading another round closed the sliding breech automatically.
The Soviet PTRD was a semi-automatic bolt action...
Upon firing, the action recoiled in the stock section, and an incline plane cammed the bolt handle open. When the action began to move forward again, a stud on the inclined plane (best thing I can think to call it right now) held the bolt handle, opening the bolt and ejecting the empty case.
The gunner inserted another round in the breech and closed the bolt by hand as with any other bolt action rifle.
The German PzB 38 employed that kind of mechanism. Upon firing the action opened and the case was ejected, and loading another round closed the sliding breech automatically.
The Soviet PTRD was a semi-automatic bolt action...
Upon firing, the action recoiled in the stock section, and an incline plane cammed the bolt handle open. When the action began to move forward again, a stud on the inclined plane (best thing I can think to call it right now) held the bolt handle, opening the bolt and ejecting the empty case.
The gunner inserted another round in the breech and closed the bolt by hand as with any other bolt action rifle.
guntotin_fool
New member
Mike that last one is probably what I saw at the gun show. not a pretty weapon.
FirstFreedom
Moderator
Mike, wouldn't that make it a SEMI-semi-auto bolt action?
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Do you realize someone makes a single shot pistol with exactly the same breech mechanism as the 1897 75mm (French) field gun?"
Uhm...
I sincerely doubt it.
The French 75 used an interrupted screw with a hinged breech block that swung it down and out so that the shell could be loaded.
There have been handguns that use an interrupted screw type mechanism, the Eagle comes to mind, but they're not exactly the same as the 75.
Uhm...
I sincerely doubt it.
The French 75 used an interrupted screw with a hinged breech block that swung it down and out so that the shell could be loaded.
There have been handguns that use an interrupted screw type mechanism, the Eagle comes to mind, but they're not exactly the same as the 75.
The French 75mm field gun did not have a breech mechanism that swung down out of the way. It had what was called an eccentric screw mechanism that operated (from the right side of the gun) by rotating the breechblock about one-third. This action matched up the hole in the breechblock with the chamber and ejected the spent case and allowed a new round to be loaded. This same mechanism was also used on the M1916 37mm infantry gun, sometimes called a one-pounder, which was used in WWI.
I couldn't tell you what the pistol is that used more or less the same mechanism but I will certainly look it up tonight. It could be the Eagle, which I will look up, but it was a slight exaggeration to say it was exactly the same. Same principle, however.
Most smaller artillery pieces use either a sliding block like the US 105mm howitizer (which has an M14 firing lock) or an interupped screw breech. I think the US type on the 105 is easier to use because of the direction of the motion when operating the breechblock.
I couldn't tell you what the pistol is that used more or less the same mechanism but I will certainly look it up tonight. It could be the Eagle, which I will look up, but it was a slight exaggeration to say it was exactly the same. Same principle, however.
Most smaller artillery pieces use either a sliding block like the US 105mm howitizer (which has an M14 firing lock) or an interupped screw breech. I think the US type on the 105 is easier to use because of the direction of the motion when operating the breechblock.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Ah crap, you're right. My bad.