6mm Creedmoor or .243 Win

[taylorce1]

Mobuck,

Nothing magical about them, they just were never designed to be limited by a 1:10 twist. Hornady ELDX 103 grain bullet has a BC of .513, the Berger 105 Hunting VLD is .532 BC and both require a 1:8 twist minimum. They simply buck the wind better due to their design.

The best BC bullet that stabilizes in a 1:10 twist is a Sierra TGK 90 grain with a .490 BC and the best 100 grain again Sierra GK at .430 BC. Most BTSP hunting bullets for the .243 Win have a low .400 BC, and most around 90-95 grains are only around .350-.380 BC. So to put it simply they are just affected by the wind more.

Plus there is the fact that I may just shoot 100 grain bullets if that is what the rifle likes. I just don't have to limit my options by sticking to a 1:10 twist rifle. Bullet lengths only seem to be getting longer across the board, I don't see that trend reversing soon.

 

[roc1]

I agree both cartridges close but I got both. I already had 6.5 Creed just wanted 6mm Creed I love it shoots great . I just like having different cartridges to play with and load I made brass from 6.5 but it’s readily available now so just bought some,even have srp in 6 now like 6.5. Great cartridge to load for good long range I enjoy both.
Roc1

 

[stagpanther]

Taylor; here's a fairly nice 105 gr hunting vld load I found using 41.9 grs of 4350. I didn't pursue it any further because I was looking for hotter loads going faster and berger bullets in general don't like me. It's a nice midrange power load that should get you at or very close to 3000 fps.

 

[taylorce1]

I've played with the VLD bullets before in .243, the only problem is who wants to carry a 12+ lbs hunting rifle?

100 yard seating depth test 115 Berger VLD.


Best 300 yard group 115 Berger VLD.


I even tried 115 grain DTACS, 100 yard seating depth test.

 

[stagpanther]

Never thought about trying RL22 in the smaller Creedmoor --hmmm. The weight issue with my AR build is true, but I never really thought I'd use for anything but punching paper.

 

[taylorce1]

Magnum powders worked pretty well with the .243, I got well over 3200 FPS out of a 26" barrel with 105 A-Max and VLD bullets. Never saw any serious pressure problems but I backed them down to around 3000 FPS just to save on throat erosion. H4350 also worked very well, I only ever tried RL22 and Retumbo but the results were similar.

 

[stagpanther]

Here in Maine we're in the middle of a sizeable rain storm, so I thought I would occupy my day with doing some scope adjustment/maintence/leveling. I decided to put a Nikon black scope on my 6mm creed but also level the reticle the best I could--which I had to do with the "flashlight through the objective" technique. Iused a pair of SME levels--I recently bought 5 sets from midway. Having put them on 3 different rifles I can say with confidence--they totally suck and don't waste your money on them. I have had a high rate of failures incuding things like going out of level, bubble tube falling out of housing and bubble inside level splitting up into subsidiary bubbles. Utter junk.


About two hours ago the rain and wind volume backed off enough to tempt me to go out--all I intended on doing was putting a few rounds of the 105 rdf's and 105 vld's I talked about above to check my zero and level. I hadn't tried the vld's in a long time and still had a few boxes collecting dust--so why not?


When I got to the pit it was still raining moderately but the fog and mist had picked up enough to make sighting in quite challenging. The Nikon scope did quite well at staying sharp, even though it was only 100 yds. The scope got thoroughly wet but showed no signs of fogging up and even the glass was reasonably sharp covered in small mist droplets. For an all around FFP scope I'm quite happy with it. Since it was raing I didn't bother setting up my bench and simply shot off the tailgate of my truck on bags.

I loaded up 5 shots each of the 105 gr rdf's and vlds, and to make a "fair" comparison I seated both to .003 off lands, which put the COL for both right about at 2.81--something that should be easily handled by most magazines.

The rdf's in the lower left did not group especially well, even though I used the same "ingredients" that previously got me a group under .75 MOA.

Next up were 5 shots of the vld's; which I really couldn't make out clearly as they impacted (which might have been for the better since I almost always choke and pull a flier once I know I have a good group started).

That's one of the best 5 shot groups I've ever shot with the 6 creedmoor @100 so far--so I'm going to have to take a second look at this load in better conditions.

And to the fine folks at Berger--I take back every bad thing I've ever said about your bullets.

 

[taylorce1]

I've decided on optics at least!



Got a smoking almost 30% off this scope. I'm sure I'll be sending it back for a CDS dial in the future.

 

[LineStretcher]

Take it back, it's garbage... ROFLOL.. Just kidding.. Nice scope, I have VX3's and a VX6 they get the job done and do it well.

 

[stagpanther]

BTW--I feel I should say something about the load above. I've been loading for the 6 Creedmoor for over a year now--and have found some good loads using IMR 4350. That's mostly because IMR 4350 was commonly mentioned in initial load data released by bullet and powder manufacturers.

However--I have on numerous occasions experienced pierced and blown primers on loads that were not even at the max suggested by the manufacturer when using it. I'm not positive--but my feeling is that the powder is a bit fast for the 6 creed--and when compressed can unexpectedly spike in pressure--which certainly can happen in an auto-feed that results if a bullet's push-back in the seating.

 

[BeeShooter]

Logic dictates- The .243 Winchester has been around for a very long time.The 6mmCM hasn't. Only time will tell. Bullets heavier than 90/100 grain and barrels faster than 10 in. are results from pushing the performance envelop that so often happens in competition shooting and not from hunters in the field. The 6mm CM is actually a spin-off from the 6.5 CM that was designed primarily for the target crowd. For all practical purposes, if you need a bullet heavier than 90 grains for hunting go to a larger caliber. IMO - I think short barrels,silencers, and muzzle breaks in this caliber range are a waste of time and money and inhibit performance. I'm not a body shooter when it comes to hunting deer. I shoot the upper neck. Consequently, I use a 222/50gr.(and sometimes even a hornet) at 100 yards and 22-250/65gr out to 250 yards. Now days when I get the urge to go hunting, I usually convince myself that it's cheaper to just go to Berger King. I absolutely love to shoot paper with both the 6cm/7.5 twist/105gr.(target rifle) and my 243 Win/10 twist/80-87gr.(hunting rifle). Both shoot extremely well. My advice to you is to get what you want and enjoy it. It doesn't have to be the latest and the greatest.

 

[dahermit]

Now days when I get the urge to go hunting, I usually convince myself that it's cheaper to just go to Berger King.

It may be cheaper, but Berger King does not take a venison roast, place it on a large square of aluminum foil, dot it with butter, sprinkle a package of Lipton Onion Soup mix on it, squeeze an entire lemon on it, wrap it up, bake it in the oven, make gravy from the accumulated drippings to pour over the meat. Nor do they serve that with mashed potatoes.

 

[stagpanther]

It may be cheaper, but Berger King does not take a venison roast, place it on a large square of aluminum foil, dot it with butter, sprinkle a package of Lipton Onion Soup mix on it, squeeze an entire lemon on it, wrap it up, bake it in the oven, make gravy from the accumulated drippings to pour over the meat. Nor do they serve that with mashed potatoes.

McCervids does.

 

[taylorce1]

IMO - I think short barrels,silencers, and muzzle breaks in this caliber range are a waste of time and money and inhibit performance.

Until you can actually quantify how loosing all this is inhibiting performance, your argument just can't hold up. Brakes and Suppressors do nothing to take away from performance of a round they simply change the way you perceive sound and have added benefits of reducing recoil and muzzle jump. Short barrels do not produce the speed that a longer barrel does, but they don't necessarily cause increased/reduced accuracy.

If I lose an average of 36 fps per inch from 26" barrel to a 20" barrel with 105 grain bullets, or 32 fps from 26" to 20" barrel with a 95 grain bullet like in this article. How, does that equate to inhibited performance if I'm able to get the dope correct, I'm able to shoot each rifle equally well, and both rifles exhibit the same accuracy potential? How does that equate to me not being able to kill a deer at 400 yards and less with the 20" barrel rifle vs. 26", or be any less able to ring steel or punch paper out as far as the bullets stay supersonic?

 

[ndking1126]

Taylorce1, did you make a decision yet?

 

[taylorce1]

Taylorce1, did you make a decision yet?

Yes, I'll be going 6mm Creedmoor.

However, I've got to recover a bit from paying taxes this year. I had a profitable year outside of work and owed a little more than I planned on. Then I have to get my wife a different car, the 2.0T on her 2011 Tiguan needs replaced and that's $8,500 minimum at VW. With the mileage we have on it it isn't worth 1/4 the price of the new engine install. So I guess a little has happened since I started this thread, and while the project isn't dead it has definitely suffered a setback.

 

[tango1niner]

I have a .243 RCBS. It looks similar to the 6mm CM with very little body taper, improved shoulder, and longer neck. The rifle is a Rem 600 with a 24" Hart barrel with 1-10" twist.
If I can hold it still enough it shoots 1/4" 5 shot groups with Hornady 75 gr. HP's and 100 gr. Nosler partitions to pretty near the same point of impact at 100 yds. This caliber is strictly a handloading proposition.

While they appear to be great shooters neither of the CM's are in my future.

 

[BeeShooter]

It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. I'll be happy to have a shoot off any day.

 

[std7mag]

Wife & I got nailed for $2k, thanks to no insurance.

Anyways, was thinking of this thread while watching Rex shoot 243 Win out to 1,542 yards.
I liked my wifes Rossi R243, not a hunting rifle, but accurate as all get out! Especially with her behind it!
Thinking another 243 in my future. Distant future, but future none the less.

 

[603Country]

Interesting read. I had nothing to do while paint dried (really). The cartridge discussion was worth the read since I’ve considered getting a 243AI. As for barrel length, most everything I have now has a 20” barrel, even my 220 Swift. Accuracy is most definitely not a problem.