6.5 Creedmoor.......can we talk?

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Rimfire5

New member
No, I believe it is a based upon a Thompson Center .30 cal necked down to .264.

I'm told that Hornady chose the T/C over the .308 because they wanted to keep the the brass trim length around 1.910 so the long .264 high BC bullets would still fit into an AR magazine with an overall length of around 2.805 to 2.810.
They didn't just design the 6.5 CM for the bolt action crowd.

I load my bolt action 6.5 CMs out to 2.880 to 2.900 O.A.L. now that my three bolt action 6.5 CM rifles have a considerable number of rounds down their tubes.

My oldest 6.5 CM has shot over 4,200 rounds, and the second oldest has shot over 4,075 rounds.
They both still shoot just as accurately as they did when new. Actually they now shoot slightly better, but I load for accuracy and avoid loads that are too close to Pmax to keep barrel wear to a minimum.

So much for the barrels wearing out quickly.
 
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603Country

New member
To be really picky about it, the 6.5CM case is essentially a 250 Savage Ackley Improved case. That cartridge predates the 30 TC by decades. You can say the 30 TC was the parent case, and not be wrong, but the 30 TC case came from somewhere, not being a one-off like the 240 Weatherby case.
 
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Scorch

New member
The main thing 30 TC brings to the 6.5 Creedmore is the small primer pocket. The 30 TC was designed to achieve or exceed 308 ballistics in a slightly smaller case while improving accuracy (the small primer is considered to enhance accuracy).

6.5 Creedmore is definitely not intended to be an improved 250 Savage case (large vs small primer), although they are almost the same length. Kinda like some of the internet wizards that say the 22 CHeetAH is just a necked down 308 case (no, that is the 22 Middlestead, the 22 CHeetAH was designed using small primer BR brass).

Splitting hairs? Maybe.
 
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Geezerbiker

New member
Thanks for the clarification. However a .250 Savage is way higher on my want list than a 6.5mm CM. It's likely neither of them will ever bubble to the top. :)

Tony
 
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Don Fischer

New member
Famas said:
What about the argument regarding barrel wear? I've heard that a 6.5 Creedmore will wear out a barrel a little quicker that a .308....is this true?

Looking at a Savage 110 Long Range Hunter and being unable to come to a decision of caliber (6.5 vs. .308) has delayed my purchase by months!
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Somehow barrel wear always come's up. I have never known a hunter that has worn out a barrel! If a hunter had what a competition shooter called a worn out barrel, he wouldn't likely know it! So say it goes 3000 rounds before wearing out. Shoot 40 rds a year sighting in and hunting and the barrel should last 75 yrs. Up the count to 100 rds a year and it still takes 30 yrs to wear out the barrel. 30 years to wear out a barrel so it no longer shoots 1/2" groups but opens to 3/4" groups doesn't seem to me to be much of a problem. Worn out barrel for a hunter is not a problem!
 
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bobn

New member
i replaced my 243 with a 6 creedmoor. one range setting was enough for me. the muzzle blast and the pitch of it was unreal on my ears. my 308 or my 3006 is an entirely different noise.
...ultimately the ruger predator in 6.5 grendel replaced it. just saying,,,,,
 
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Nathan

New member
Barrel wear is throat burn. It is caused by 3 things....velocity, leading edge burnoff(powder burning on the throat) and your ability to accept lower accuracy.

Velocity - This is pretty simple. The faster the round, the greater the abrasion on the throat.

Leading Edge Burnoff - This is basically the amount of super hot burning powder your round is pushing over the leading edge of the throat. Think 6.5 creed vs 264 win mag at same velocity and pressure. 264 still has way more hot powder blowing over the throat....like blowing on a glowing fire ember instead of letting it cool and go out.

Accuracy Degradation Acceptance- After about 50-100 rounds, every round is less accurate than the one before. Even benchrest shooters accept out to around 1000 rounds which probably equates to 50-75% increase in group size. Hunters probably could accept 1 moa shooting from a 0.25 moa rifle, but some won’t.

Knowing those 3 things and assuming you will be fine with 100% increase in group size, I’m guessing 6000 rounds minimum for 6.5 creed.....many will probably say a 6.5 creed is shot out shooting 1moa groups....and a factory rifle will likely start around 1moa.....well, that will greatly limit barrel life.
 
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raimius

New member
I think 6.5 Creedmoor is a good compromise round, that has found commercial acceptance. Categorize rounds by use and category. For plinking .22LR and .223 are most popular. For defense .223, 7.62x39, and .300blk are most popular (talking rifles here). For hunting larger game, none of those previous rounds put out as much energy at distance. So, now you have to step up to the .308, 6.5CM, 7mm, etc. Within that class, 6.5CM has very nice ballistics and "good enough" bullet size/weight for most game in North America. For target shooters, those ballistics, lower recoil, and "good enough" barrel life make it a good choice. Now, it's not going to compete with .338 lapua or .416 at extreme ranges, but how many people really want to maximize shooting past 1200-1300m?
 
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Nathan

New member
@Bart B.: my statement was nearly trying to capture that there is a point where accuracy and speed are increasing with a new barrel. At some point, there is a peak....I would argue it is pretty early in barrel life, but that basically to the shooter a barrel delivers good accuracy for a long time....from break in through ??? Round count.
 
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Shane Tuttle

Staff
Carl the Floor Walker said:
I would be interested in comparing it to the 350 Legend. I have been thinking of both for my next rifles.
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The 350 Legend is not even in the ballpark of comparison for the 6.5Creedmoor. It's a good cartridge for what it's designed. But these two are apples to oranges.

raimius said:
Now, it's not going to compete with .338 lapua or .416 at extreme ranges, but how many people really want to maximize shooting past 1200-1300m?
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Me. That's why I had my Creedmoor punched out to a Norma.
 
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Brian Pfleuger

Moderator Emeritus
Nathan said:
my statement was nearly trying to capture that there is a point where accuracy and speed are increasing with a new barrel. At some point, there is a peak....I would argue it is pretty early in barrel life, but that basically to the shooter a barrel delivers good accuracy for a long time....from break in through ??? Round count.
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From a purely physics perspective, the part about wearing out is inarguable, I would think.

We don't notice because there is a limit to the resolution of our observation. Just like we don't see that "desks" are made of "molecules" that are made of "atoms" that are made of "quarks".... those quarks were always there, whether we knew it or not.

Every shot fired "damages" every barrel in some miniscule, microscopic, possibly individual molecule kind of way....

That "damage" may, at first, make the barrel shoot better but eventually by the very laws of the universe, it will start making it worse. Where that "worse" starts is a matter of the opinion formed based on the limits of the resolution of our observations.

I.E. - If your average group size has opened up by the width of a Hydrogen atom over the last 10 rounds.... do you know it? No. Does it matter? No, not directly.... until there are enough of those "widths of hydrogen atoms" compounded so they are large enough for a man to notice and measure with his calipers.

A barrel doesn't just "suddenly" go from shooting 1/4 to 1/2... no more than an engine goes from burning no oil in 3,000 miles to burning 1/2 quart. Every single stroke of that piston damages the engine and causes it to burn more oil that it did before (or get closer to burning oil than it was before) and the same is true of gun barrels.
 
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