My original post got lost when the staff attempted to merge it with another post. My fault.
I can't remember everything I said preceding my pasting of part of a report by CBS News that claims we are issuing our troops "worthless ammo." As a proud owner of a Colt M4, I am confident that with the correct combination of the right anti-personnel bullet with the 5.56mm cartridge, it is the most lethal rifle/carbine for our soldiers, and for homestead-defenders. The complaints of the Marines should probably be directed to the types of bullets they are being issued; most likely green tip tungsten armor piercing rounds (which don't fragment and cause as much blood loss as other bullets designed for the 5.56mm cartridge). The 5.56mm NATO has a long history of doing the job against armed soldiers better than any other cartridge. Throw in the facts that the 5.56mm allows soldiers to carry a lighter weapon and about 3 times more ammunition than a soldier humping around with 7.62mm and the conclusion to adopt and continue to use 5.56mm NATO for more than 30 years has proven to be the correct one. But be your own judge, and add your two, or more, cents. Below is an excerpt from the CBS report. You can find the full story at CBS.com, and navigate to their news section.
FROM CBS.COM:
(CBS) As American troop casualties in Iraq continue to mount, concern is growing they may be outgunned. That includes new questions about the stopping power of the ammunition that is used by the standard-issue M-16 rifle.
Shortly after the U.N. headquarters was bombed in Baghdad in August 2003, a Special Forces unit went to Ramadi to capture those responsible.
In a fierce exchange of gunfire, one insurgent was hit seven times by 5.56 mm bullets, reports CBS News chief investigative correspondent Armen Keteyian. It took a shot to the head with a pistol to finally bring him down. But before he died, he killed two U.S. soldiers and wounded seven more.
"The lack of the lethality of that bullet has caused United States soldiers to die," says Maj. Anthony Milavic.
Milavic is a retired Marine major who saw three tours of duty in Vietnam. He says the small-caliber 5.56, essentially a .22-caliber civilian bullet, is far better suited for shooting squirrels than the enemy, and contends that urban warfare in Iraq demands a bigger bullet. "A bullet that knocks the man down with one shot," he says. "And keeps him down."
Milavic is not alone. In a confidential report to Congress last year, active Marine commanders complained that: "5.56 was the most worthless round," "we were shooting them five times or so," and "torso shots were not lethal."
In last week's Marine Corps Times, a squad leader said his Marines carried and used "found" enemy AK-47s because that weapon's 7.62 mm bullets packed "more stopping power."
Bruce Jones is a mechanical engineer who helped design artillery, rifles and pistols for the Marines.
"I saw the tests that clearly showed how miserable the bullets really were in performance," he says. "But that's what we're arming our troops with. It's horrible, you know, it's unconscionable."
To demonstrate to CBS News, Jones fired the larger-caliber 7.62 bullet fired by AK-47s used by insurgents in Iraq into a block of glycerin. The hole cavity is 50 percent or more larger than that of the 5.56.
"You can't just go out and, you know, rig up a little block of Jello and shoot at it and prove anything," says Pierre Sprey, a former Pentagon weapons expert.
Since the early days of the Vietnam War, Sprey has been a champion of the 5.56, and believes it both lethal and light.
"The brilliant thing about that bullet is that it allowed the infantrymen to easily carry 300 rounds," Sprey says. "Whereas the old sharpshooter's heavy, slow round — he could only carry 100."
I can't remember everything I said preceding my pasting of part of a report by CBS News that claims we are issuing our troops "worthless ammo." As a proud owner of a Colt M4, I am confident that with the correct combination of the right anti-personnel bullet with the 5.56mm cartridge, it is the most lethal rifle/carbine for our soldiers, and for homestead-defenders. The complaints of the Marines should probably be directed to the types of bullets they are being issued; most likely green tip tungsten armor piercing rounds (which don't fragment and cause as much blood loss as other bullets designed for the 5.56mm cartridge). The 5.56mm NATO has a long history of doing the job against armed soldiers better than any other cartridge. Throw in the facts that the 5.56mm allows soldiers to carry a lighter weapon and about 3 times more ammunition than a soldier humping around with 7.62mm and the conclusion to adopt and continue to use 5.56mm NATO for more than 30 years has proven to be the correct one. But be your own judge, and add your two, or more, cents. Below is an excerpt from the CBS report. You can find the full story at CBS.com, and navigate to their news section.
FROM CBS.COM:
(CBS) As American troop casualties in Iraq continue to mount, concern is growing they may be outgunned. That includes new questions about the stopping power of the ammunition that is used by the standard-issue M-16 rifle.
Shortly after the U.N. headquarters was bombed in Baghdad in August 2003, a Special Forces unit went to Ramadi to capture those responsible.
In a fierce exchange of gunfire, one insurgent was hit seven times by 5.56 mm bullets, reports CBS News chief investigative correspondent Armen Keteyian. It took a shot to the head with a pistol to finally bring him down. But before he died, he killed two U.S. soldiers and wounded seven more.
"The lack of the lethality of that bullet has caused United States soldiers to die," says Maj. Anthony Milavic.
Milavic is a retired Marine major who saw three tours of duty in Vietnam. He says the small-caliber 5.56, essentially a .22-caliber civilian bullet, is far better suited for shooting squirrels than the enemy, and contends that urban warfare in Iraq demands a bigger bullet. "A bullet that knocks the man down with one shot," he says. "And keeps him down."
Milavic is not alone. In a confidential report to Congress last year, active Marine commanders complained that: "5.56 was the most worthless round," "we were shooting them five times or so," and "torso shots were not lethal."
In last week's Marine Corps Times, a squad leader said his Marines carried and used "found" enemy AK-47s because that weapon's 7.62 mm bullets packed "more stopping power."
Bruce Jones is a mechanical engineer who helped design artillery, rifles and pistols for the Marines.
"I saw the tests that clearly showed how miserable the bullets really were in performance," he says. "But that's what we're arming our troops with. It's horrible, you know, it's unconscionable."
To demonstrate to CBS News, Jones fired the larger-caliber 7.62 bullet fired by AK-47s used by insurgents in Iraq into a block of glycerin. The hole cavity is 50 percent or more larger than that of the 5.56.
"You can't just go out and, you know, rig up a little block of Jello and shoot at it and prove anything," says Pierre Sprey, a former Pentagon weapons expert.
Since the early days of the Vietnam War, Sprey has been a champion of the 5.56, and believes it both lethal and light.
"The brilliant thing about that bullet is that it allowed the infantrymen to easily carry 300 rounds," Sprey says. "Whereas the old sharpshooter's heavy, slow round — he could only carry 100."
