.460 T/C Encore vs 1892 Lever Action .45 Colt

ruggyh

New member
Yes, talking about the Encore pistol. I don't care for the super long rifle barrels T/C makes.

With the additional color the TC 460 handgun configuration is not all that comfortable to shoot and handle compared to the an S&W revolver. For hunting a 15" length barrel doesn't really add any value when hunting and carries like any short barreled rifle as opposed to a revolver.

I find the muzzle flip of the 460 TC (handgun conf.) disconcerting and annoying.

I use my 7.5" revolver (460) for most my hunting - still get 2300 fps with 200 grain bullets and 1800 fps with the Northfork 260 CPS I prefer to use.

If the intent is shoot at distance greater (implied the way I read you response) a red dot or scope will get you out past 200 yards with any 460

Be safe
Ruggy
 
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TruthTellers

New member
possum:

My .45 Colt is a Ruger Redhawk with a 4 inch barrel. It's not set up for scopes and that's not it's purpose anyway.

I've never shot .460 before, I don't care for the hunk that is the S&W revolver, but the Encore appeals to me because I also have a passive interest in the .308 for it. However, there's a company called Midland that is importing Kahn single shot shotguns and Midland is going to make rifle barrels to fit onto the frame. I'm thinking about buying one of those, registering it as SBS/SBR, and chopping barrels down to my preferred length. I could even chop the stock too, so the Encore is probably going to be out of contention soon anyway.

I'm thinking the Rossi or Chiappa is going to be it now.
 

ruggyh

New member
Have you considered Freedom Arms Model 2008 single shoot - available in 454 Casull and 45 colt and can be scoped - I have not shoot these but have handled them- better balance than a TC and better grip to bore axis so should be more friendly in the recoil and muzzle rise.

These can be scoped and the 454 will shoot 45C also.

I am out of suggestions.

Be safe
Ruggy
 

the possum

New member
Yeah, Truthtellers- You've been thinking about this for months and are still going all different directions. You sound like me. :D So here's another thought. Get whatever you want, and if it doesn't turn out the way you expected, ya know what? It's not the end of the world. You can sell it and then try the next thing. If ya find a deal on a used one, ya might even make money in the end. We're not talking about a new car where you are stuck with it or lose thousands after ya drive it off the lot.

Whatever you get, I hope you'll come back and keep us posted about it.
 

TruthTellers

New member
Yeah, Truthtellers- You've been thinking about this for months and are still going all different directions. You sound like me. :D So here's another thought. Get whatever you want, and if it doesn't turn out the way you expected, ya know what? It's not the end of the world. You can sell it and then try the next thing. If ya find a deal on a used one, ya might even make money in the end. We're not talking about a new car where you are stuck with it or lose thousands after ya drive it off the lot.

Whatever you get, I hope you'll come back and keep us posted about it.
No, I've decided. The T/C isn't a need and with Midland coming out with their own single shot break action platform that uses interchangeable barrels, I'm gonna give them a run and see how they do. Given how low the price is for their single shot shotgun, I was going to get one anyway to see how their rifle barrels do.

For the guns on my bucket list, a .45 Colt or .454 lever action should come before a T/C Encore.
 

44 AMP

Staff
So, the question that I have to ask myself is: what does a .460 do from a T/C Encore with a 15 inch barrel that a very hot .45 Colt doesn't do from a 16 inch 1892 Lever action rifle?

leaving aside all discussion about the difference (if any) in the power of the rounds, the T/C is built to give you one precision shot, at a time. The lever gun is built to give you a magazine's worth of reasonably accurate shots. And, reasonably accurate is being optimistic.

And there is more to it than just the sights. There is the trigger, the barrel, and the overall construction of the gun, as well.

Several have mentioned the sights, and how a peep sight is more accurate than the usual semi buckhorn open sight. The peep is easier to use, as it relies on the eye's natural ability to find the center of a circle. Faster?? that depends on the shooter, and the size of the peep sight aperture. Peeps with a large hole (aka, Ghost ring) are very fast to use, but more difficult to use with maximum precision. The small hole in target peep sights is very precise to use, but can be difficult to find in a hurry, or in lower light situations.

Scopes? (or dot sights)? Easy on the T/C, and on a Marlin lever gun, but not so much on a Rossi (Winchester design).

The top ejecting Winchester design means that a scope must be either the long eye relief type, mounted forward of the receiver (Scout Scope style), which is not for everyone, OR its mounted on the receiver, either a side mount, or a mount on the side of the receiver that puts the scope high enough over the action so the fired brass will eject properly.

Neither of these side mounts is easily usable with the factory stock.

Something not mentioned before is the trigger. The best sights in the world won't give you their best if the trigger is crap. I will admit to no personal experience with the Encore. I do have a couple decades experience with the Contender, and it has an excellent trigger. And mine (older guns, don't know about the newest ones) have adjustable triggers.

Also, no personal experience with the Rossi, but I have experience with a number of lever guns, Winchesters, Marlins, Savage, and their triggers run from horrid crap up to decently usable, with rare individual rifles being better. NONE of them have a "target" type trigger pull, which the single shots often do. A good trigger job can improve them a lot, but they don't come from the factory that way.

And then there is general construction. The lever gun, with a tube magazine, and barrel band means that there is a lot more going on to affect barrel harmonics than there is with a single shot. This means the single shot tends to be more accurate when shooting groups. individual exceptions do exist.

I see I'm a little late to the party, and you have made the choice to go with the new single shot when it comes out. Total unknown to me, please let us know how it works for you, after you get it.

I am curious, why the Encore, and why the .460?? to compare to a Rossi 92.

Different things for different uses, in my book. I can see the Encore, if you're looking to use a .308 (later), and .460 because it will take .45 Colt ammo. But comparing a single shot with a lever action repeater, even in the same caliber is not an apples to apples comparison.

'Bout the only problems I hear of (but have not personally experienced) are with Keith styled semi wadcutters, that have a sharp front driving band (originally designed to scrape black powder fouling outta the bore).

I have had feeding issues with SWCs in Marlin .357s, but never in .44s. The way you work the lever seems to be as important as anything, when shooting SWCs. RN and jacketed feed like water.;) Never had a .45 colt lever gun, so can't say for certain, but it seem unlikely. This is the first time I've ever heard Keith type slugs were designed to scrape black powder fouling out of the bore. Everything I've read, for decades, including from Keith himself, always said he designed the sharp shoulder on his slugs for maximum shock on game, and they cut nice clean holes in paper, as well.
 

the possum

New member
This is the first time I've ever heard Keith type slugs were designed to scrape black powder fouling out of the bore. Everything I've read, for decades, including from Keith himself, always said he designed the sharp shoulder on his slugs for maximum shock on game, and they cut nice clean holes in paper, as well.

That's the way I remember Elmer Keith writing about it in either "Sixguns" or "Hell, I was There". It's possible my memory is faulty. The flat point was for shock effect, but the shoulder just above where the bullet enters the casing was to scrape fouling outta the bore from previous shots. I recall him going into detail about the proper alloy of lead/tin so it would completely fill out the fine details of the bullet mold and keep that shoulder as sharp/square as possible so it could do its job.
 
It's helpful when there's an explanation behind a statement like this.
Generally speaking, I would recommend a third party barrel over a factory barrel in any case, but the 460 SW specifically is probably their worst barrel design.

T/C standard twist rates
45 AUTO LH 1:16
454 CASULL 1:16
460 S&W 1:16
45 COLT LH 1:16
45 COLT-410 LH 1:16

They use the same blanks for every 45 barrel. My understanding is the twist rate is basically optimum for 45 colt. SW uses twist gain rifling for 460 SW and MGM uses 1:20. 1:16 is too fast.

Search a bit on Encore Classifieds forum or specialty pistols forum and you will find some poor reviews of the factory 460 barrels.
 

TruthTellers

New member
Generally speaking, I would recommend a third party barrel over a factory barrel in any case, but the 460 SW specifically is probably their worst barrel design.

T/C standard twist rates



They use the same blanks for every 45 barrel. My understanding is the twist rate is basically optimum for 45 colt. SW uses twist gain rifling for 460 SW and MGM uses 1:20. 1:16 is too fast.

Search a bit on Encore Classifieds forum or specialty pistols forum and you will find some poor reviews of the factory 460 barrels.
Ah, okay. We'll the deal with that is I was going to shoot .45 Colt, .454, and .460 from that barrel, so if .460 shoots like crap from it, then I'd be better off not getting it even though I wouldn't shoot .460 a whole lot.
 
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