.45 ACP vs. 9MM Rant

[41special]

It’s not often or at all that I would engage in a ‘Rant’ on this or any other forum but, I have just met my breaking point with my new edition of Guns & ammo magazine, in an article titled ‘ The once and future .45 ‘

In the above article the author is compelled to spread what I believe to be the quintessential bull**** statement of all time. In reference to the 9mm vs. 45ACP, the author mentions an acquaintance of his who went through half of WWII with a 9mm slug in him and didn’t even know it!!!!

This has to be about the 10th time I’ve read of such an instance in 9mm ineffectiveness.

First – I’m so sick of the 9mm vs. 45 debate, its apples and oranges. We all know far to well the glaring qualities and limitations of both rounds, and the comparison of the 2 just seems futile to me. I can’t wait for these authors future articles:

38 SPL vs. 41 MAG ‘see who comes out on top’

Ok, I might be exaggerating some, but I think you see where I’m coming from.

In a final note, these same authors stroking the 45 and cutting apart the 9mm, will in the very next issue hallmark the .357 mag and it’s well earned street rep.

Now I’m not too bright but a 125gr HP at 1000 fps, whether out of a model 19 S&W or an M9 Beretta should have about the same effect.

In closing, do my eyes need to be opened in some way?

Or, is this a myth that needs to be busted once and for all?

 

[Musketeer]

Now I’m not too bright but a 125gr HP at 1000 fps, whether out of a model 19 S&W or an M9 Beretta should have about the same effect.

Check your figures. The 125gr JHP from a 357 should be on the order of 1400fps. That is about 40% faster than the 9mm you mentioned at 1000fps and has almost twice the energy.

Aside from that, you are right. The whole 45 vs. 9mm thing has been beat to death. To go through a couple years of war and not know you have a 9mm in you would mean you were in a coma...

 

[pt92]

I agree with you--No one is going to tell me that good quality 9mm EFMJ or HP's won't end a problem as quick as any other handgun caliber. Furthermore, even with FMJ it's shot placement that is key, not the caliber.

-Cheers

 

[m0ntels]

38 SPL vs. 41 MAG ‘see who comes out on top’

No need to write an article on that, everyone knows the 41 is obsolete anyway right?






Randy - only a few weeks until deer season w/ my 3-screw 41!

 

[Para Bellum]

Test comparing 9x19mm, .45 (and .40 etc) check it out

Our test is online, see and interpret yourself:
http://www.raoulwagner.com/tests.htm

 

[41special]

Checking my figures

For my 9mm vs 357 example I was using the standard 125gr JHP at 1000-1200fps out of a 4" barrel. The only hotter figures I have for the .357 come out of an 8" barrel. I wanted to compare apples with apples.

But of course these figures come from the same magazine mentioned in my prior post. So I think soon I'll take my chronograph out and do my own head to head and send it into them!

 

[dirksterg30]

I have heard it said that when things are slow, gunrags will do articles on 9mm vs .45, 1911 vs. Glock etc. This sounds like more of the same.

I have both 9mm & .45 handguns, and I trust both with my life. I do believe that the .45 is more effective if we are talking FMJ ammo, but as has been said many times, shot placement trumps caliber. If the target is not hit in a vital area, even a .44mag/10mm... won't do the trick. There are plenty of recorded incidents where caliber x didn't stop the badguy. An instructor for a gun class I took told us of an incident when he was a police officer in the Northwest - a criminal got into a shootout with the cops, and it took 13 rounds of .45 to subdue him, and he lived!

 

[gb_in_ga]

Yep. I've gotten just sick and tired of all of that "9mm vs .40 S&W vs .45 ACP vs yadda yadda" malarkey. To a large extent, that is why I quit reading gun rags years ago. Too much "Blah Blah Blah Hype Hype Hype Blah Blah Blah".

Pick a gun you are comfortable shooting, chambered in anything above the obvious "Mouse Gun" calibers. Feed it good quality SD ammo of whatever brand tickles your fancy. Go to the range and practice until you can actually hit what you are shooting at. And keep on practicing. Yes, it is ok to use cheaper range fodder ammo for most of your practice, but not to the exclusion of ever shooting any of your SD stuff.

IMHO, if you do that you can feel confident in your SD handgun. Good hits count if you are using a properly fed 9mm. Good hits count if you are using a properly fed .40 S&W. Good hits count if you are using a properly fed .45 ACP. Good hits count, and that's what counts.

 

[JR47]

There is a simple remedy for the pick one vs. pick another one debates. Don't get involved. At any point that a person decided that anything is the best, either he will try to convert others, or others will argue.

There are a number of stories about 9mm rounds being overlooked in WWII. So what? If I got shot with a 9mm in the leg, then blown up by a mortar round, it might be overlooked as shrapnel, to be removed later. This is the 1940s, and medicine, especially in the field, wasn't quite where it is today.

The best round out there has been the same since guns were invented. It's the one that hits in a vulnerable place. I like the .45 ACP, but I don't want to be shot by a .22, much less a 9mm, or even a BB gun.

 

[cje1980]

Now I’m not too bright but a 125gr HP at 1000 fps, whether out of a model 19 S&W or an M9 Beretta should have about the same effect.

First of all, I don't know of any 124 gr. 9mm load that only goes 1000fps let alone a 357 Magnum load. Even the "Low-Recoil" 125gr. SD are making well over 1100fps from even a snubby barrel. Are you implying that there is absolutely no difference between a 9mm and 357Mag? That latter can easily push a 158gr. bullet at over 1200fps.

 

[Majic]

In closing, do my eyes need to be opened in some way?

Yes, remember the story was referring to WWII. The 9mm was ball ammo not any of the expanding bullets used to today. In FMJ the 9mm is no more effective than the old .38 spl RN load. All they did was put a .36" hole in you. Bullet velocity would mean absolutely nothing as both penetrated adequately. The smooth round nose configuration pushes thru flesh without causing a lot of damage. The pliable flesh is known to close enough after the bullet passes to seal off the wound and there would be very little bleeding. The .45 was better, but only because it put a slightly larger hole in you making the flesh have a slightly harder time sealing the wound.
Remember folks the 9 vs .45 arguments today are based on modern JHP loads where the playing field is level. With the FMJ bullet ( or any non-expanding bullet) it becomes a simple matter of the biggest and heaviest bullet wins.

 

[pdt1793db]

Most of the time I don't really invest that much into the different gun rags I thumb through the at Borders while the girlfriend is looking to get Cosmo or Glamour :barf: But other than that I've found alot of them say the something about anything they are reviewing that being its great everything is great acourding to them. This is probable because secretly they are trying to sell you something. I just look through them something strikes my fancy I do some research and might buy one. But I do agree the .45 vs 9mm is way over done and is mainly generated towards those people that just have to argue with someone about something all the time. Rant over.

 

[41special]

First of all, I don't know of any 124 gr. 9mm load that only goes 1000fps let alone a 357 Magnum load.

You might want to break that chrony out about 15ft. from the muzzle.

Are you implying that there is absolutely no difference between a 9mm and 357Mag?

For my 9mm vs 357 example I was using the standard 125gr JHP at 1000-1200fps out of a 4" barrel. The only hotter figures I have for the .357 come out of an 8" barrel. I wanted to compare apples with apples.

 

[orionengnr]

I figured out the answer a long time ago

and I'll share it with you now, but you gotta promise not to tell.


Buy one of each! Better yet, buy two or three of each! While you're at it, buy a .40 or two. Buy a 38/357 or two. Buy a 44SPL/44Mag or two.

If you can afford it buy ammo for all of them! Then go enjoy them. It will put you so far in debt buying and feeding these beasts that you will have to work extra hours. Between working and shooting, you won't have time to read ridiculous online arguments about "which is better".

Ah, isn't that better, now?

Solving all the world's problems...one post at a time.

 

[croyance]

I believe it was Charles Askins (sp?) who said he knowingly wrote what he knew was BS to stir up controversy. He even wrote articles with very contradictary views. Controversy sells.
This is why you should never believe a magazine writer.

 

[cje1980]

For my 9mm vs 357 example I was using the standard 125gr JHP at 1000-1200fps out of a 4" barrel.

What do you mean by standard 357 load? There isn't even one in existence that only goes 1000fps. Maybe 38spl. The standard 125gr. 357 Mag load is 1450fps for 580ft/lbs of energy. While this usually does about 1375-1400fps out of actual 4" barreled revolvers, it is still well over 1000fps. There isn't even any 124gr. 9mm loads that I know of that only go 1000fps. Like I said, even a watered down "Low-Recoil" 357 Mag load does well over 1100fps from a 2" barrel. So do these loads go slower out of a 4" barrel? You still haven't answered my question. Are you saying there is absolutely no difference between the 9mm and 357 Mag? Clearly there is a pretty significant Energy and Velocity difference.

 

[cje1980]

You might want to break that chrony out about 15ft. from the muzzle.

What are you saying, that the average 357 Mag load loses over 300fps in the first 15 feet of travel? I haven't heard of many issues with the 357 Magnum's ability to put down BGs. It was highly regarded as a duty weapon for LEOs for a large part of the last century. A caliber was actually created just to imitate its performance from a semi-auto.

 

[IM_Lugger]

Quote:
Now I’m not too bright but a 125gr HP at 1000 fps, whether out of a model 19 S&W or an M9 Beretta should have about the same effect.


First of all, I don't know of any 124 gr. 9mm load that only goes 1000fps let alone a 357 Magnum load. Even the "Low-Recoil" 125gr. SD are making well over 1100fps from even a snubby barrel. Are you implying that there is absolutely no difference between a 9mm and 357Mag? That latter can easily push a 158gr. bullet at over 1200fps.

cje1980 is right 124gr 9mm dosn't do 1000fps, from 4.5in barrel you can get 1300fps with +p ammo. Even 'light' target ammo is 1100fps. But .357 is still more powerful...


as for the original topic, everyone knows 9mm is the best semiauto cartrige

 

[cje1980]

I personally think that the 40S&W is the ideal semi-auto cartridge but still prefer the 9mm for its good controllability. Part of the reason why I also like the 357 Magnum. Its powerful yet very controllable. The guns made for it are generally a pleasure to carry.

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't guess the opinion of somebody just back from the war zone counts but I saw this today:

Jordan spent 7 months at "Camp Blue Diamond" in Ramadi. Aka: Fort
Apache. He saw and did a lot and the following is what he told me about
weapons, equipment, tactics and other miscellaneous info which may be
of interest to you. Nothing is by any means classified. No politics
here, just a Marine with a bird's eye view's opinions:

3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in desert
environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns
for self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm:
Bad guys hit multiple times and still in the fight.

7) The .45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol round out there.
Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on
one. With few exceptions, can reliably be expected to put 'em down with
a torso hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol
work) use the HK military model and supposedly love it. The old
government model .45's are being re-issued en masse.