44 mag bullet styles for 240 grain

[fishbones182]

Well here i am thinking about what to play with next on the 44 mags I have. I was curious if bullet style made much of a difference in performance at all. I was thinking about a 240 grnfp versus the tried and true 240 gswc. What do you guys think about the different styles? Any difference in accuracy or loads for them?

 

[Ozzieman]

With my experience with the 44 SP and Mag a lot depends on what you’re shooting them in.
The only lead I use is from Penn bullets.
I have used his 200 GR Round nose flat point in both my N frame S&W’s and in the Ruger 77/44 Rifle.
The hard premium grade I have had up to 1500 and it’s worked very well.
Another I have tried is there 320 GR SSK. But only in the Ruger rifle. You should see what this thing does to a gallon jug full of water. Looked like a hand grenade went off.
I have a new one on order which looks interesting and that’s the Penn 180 TCBB. Although it’s rated to over 1600 I will be working it up slowly.
http://www.pennbullets.com/44/44-caliber.html
For jacketed my best work was with the Hornady 200 XTP had the best accuracy of any bullet I have ever tried in my Ruger 44/77 or Marlin lever. With the Ruger 77 I worked up a load that held 3 inch groups at 100 yards.
One that I did not like was the Hornady FTX. It’s a great bullet with factory loads. A good friend uses them for deer and it’s been a great bullet but for reloading I have been unable to find a bullets seater that doesn’t deform the tip badly.
The tried and true 240 Semi wad cutter is a hard bullet to beat and it’s the one I shoot the most. My last order from Penn was for 5000.

 

[jmortimer]

Here is .44 wadcutter that Buffalo Bore uses from Rim Rock Bullets.
http://www.rimrockbullets.net/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=169
I like wadcutters.

 

[fishbones182]

I currently load 200 grain lead round nose flat point and and 240 grain lead semi wad cutter. I mostly use either mastercast or friends wood bullet companies. I have seen a 240 grain lead round nose flat point and am curious as if the loading would need to change due to bullet style and if accuracy would be affected by the style of the bullet. Thats part of the reason i love to load my own so i can try new things.

 

[GeauxTide]

I really like Missouri Bullets. Have them in 41, 44, and 45LC. They are fabulous and don't lead.

 

[totaldla]

The biggest problem with funky bullet profiles is seating them. Bullet seating stems in different dies may not accomodate a true wadcutter. The SWC profile has been popular for a really long time and all the popular dies can handle it.

Some folks attach some wounding ballistics fantasy to wadcutters - but it is just fantasy. IMO, bullet fit is more important than bullet profile for accuracy.

 

[jmortimer]

"Some folks attach some wounding ballistics fantasy to wadcutters - but it is just fantasy"
In a non-expanding hard cast bullet, the larger the meplat the better. I will trust expert opinion over "fantasy" opinion on an internet thread. I'll trust Veral Smith over "opinion" on this thread. One reason that LBT design is preferred by serious hard core cast bullet hunters is the large meplat as compared to SWC. LFN is big improvement over SWC primarily due to meplat. As noted on the Buffalo Bore web site:
"This load is designed to cause disabling terminal effect, combined with the penetration required to cause fast incapacitation on human sized targets from any angle. The big flat wad cutter nose crushes living tissue as it passes through, unlike mushroomed bullets that are slightly rounded on the nose and tend to slip and slide through living material. The crushing action of the flat nose keeps penetration straight and thus deep. The hard cast construction will not deform on flesh and bone at these velocities so the nose profile remains constant along with bullet path and terminal damage. Full wad cutter profiles in large calibers (like .45 and .44) hit like a truck and do massive permanent damage. Renowned NYPD "Stake Out Officer" and Gun Fighter Jim Cirillo used full wad cutters in his 38 SPL revolvers because they incapacitated his targets with certainty. See our Item #20D (38 SPL)."
Sorry, but I'll stick with expert opinion.

 

[totaldla]

jmortimer: that is exactly how the fantasy continues to be spread. You have no data. Veral has no data. If you don't have data, then you have "opinion", and like most body parts - everybody has one.

I've had to put up with this holy hardcast BS for a long time and I make a point of dissing it every chance I get.

 

[Edward429451]

I like wadcutters. Larger meplats are not fantasy. That's my opinion and I'm stickin to it.

I get best performance (overall) with 240 gr SWC's. It's hard to beat that Keith boolit. Lees 240 gr RN shoots better in my gun than it should.

 

[Robert Palermo]

Empirical work

Much of this started with Elmer Keiths belief that a swc would cut a hole thru tissue and break bone the same way it cuts a hole thru paper.
J.D.Jones of SSK industries who knew Elmer said that Elmer wanted the bullet design to do everything.
In J.D.s actual tests on hunting animals it was found that the shoulder of the bullet was wiped away as it were; leaving only the nose profile intact that was actually carving its way thru.

Veral duplicated the effect of the shoulder wiping away by firing the bullets into wet sand showing the effect as well.

J.D. went on to develop the SSK line of heavyweight bullets with its profiles developed in actual real world testing on game animals.
Veral went on to design the LBT Designs based upon his tests.

Larger meplat design bullets have proven themselves over the years at being very effective in taking various types of game.

As to nose profiles its been found over the years that TC designs are more accurate over the SWC designs as they are self centering to the forcing cone and are more aerodynamic than their SWC counterparts. The Round Nose Flatpoint design falls in between the two for accuracy.

 

[jmortimer]

^ Thanks for the info and thanks for making the Thunderhead. And thank you for making .45 Colt wadcutters. I like what you are doing at Penn Bullets. Ross Seyfried caused a ruckus years back when he rightly pointed that a +P .45 Colt with hard cast bullets and a large meplat was equal to a .300 mag on large/dangerous game. The Linebaugh Seminars and he Bone Box support that claim and more. On large/dangerous game, a non-expanding bullet with a large meplat blows the doors off expanding bullets.

 

[Jim Watson]

Does anybody use a plain old roundnose any more? I never heard a complaint about the accuracy of the old 246 gr .44 Russian and S&W Special roundnose. Talk about self centering. I would sure give them a try; I seldom shoot much other than roundnose in .38s, they line up with a speedloader so well and shoot as accurately as anything but a wadcutter. Now if somebody would just cut a machine mold for 358311 instead of those hemispherical jobs with vestigal front bands, I would be happy.

The main purpose of the roundnose flatpoint is tubular magazine pistol caliber carbines. Can't see where it offers any advantage in a revolver other than commonality with a carbine.

 

[Edward429451]

I use a Lee 240 gr RN sometimes. Someone gave me the mould so I tried it just for kicks, and it shoots so good that it's hard not to use it more, it being such an inferior design and all.

I used Rem 246 gr RN 44 Specials before I began loading for my Bulldog and they shoot great out of it.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I shot tens of thousands of extra hard Keith style SWCs. They proved accurate. I bought at wholesale prices and like the cost savings over jacket stuff.
I'll have to take old Elmer's word they are effective on game. Never succeeded in dropping the hammer on a deer with my Redhawk.
But, I did shoot competitively and the results were highly satisfactory.

 

[fishbones182]

One sure does pick up a lot of info around here. I have loaded swc in my win 94 and have had no issue with them other then being stubborn with feeding sometimes. I dont think they are small enough to set off a chain reaction in the tube of the gun. I was just looking at trying a different style and see what happens in my gun.

 

[Clark]

I have an Old Ruger 44 mag carbine I got for $180 blow up and peel back the muzzle like a banana.

I shot 300 gr cast bullets and it left Lead fouling in the bore. Then I shot 240 gr JHP and it blew up.

There are no replacement barrels, because this happens often, so the replacement barrel needed to have a gas hole drilled and a gas fitting welded on, etc. A real hassle.

That was the end of cast bullets and the 44 mag for me.

Hank Williams Jr. shot a bear with 44 mag JHP and it then attacked his dog. So he converted to cast bullets.

We all have little anecdotes that cause us to change direction.

 

[jmortimer]

You should fit your bullet to your gun and leading should not be an issue. Sorry to hear about your gun.

 

[fishbones182]

Bullet fit is a big part of it but the cylinder throats are important also on a revolver. A lot of folks i think that have a big leading issue are either loading them too slow or too hot to get that type of build up in the barrel. You should never fire a jacketed round after cast unless the barrel has been cleaned out first. Jacketed bullets create more pressure as they dont give like a cast bullet does. In a barrel thats already fouled bad it can cause those types of accidents to happen. I often shoot 100 to 150 rounds of lead 44 mag bullets and it dosent take me 30 min to make the entire gun look new again afterwards.

 

[buck460XVR]

I've had to put up with this holy hardcast BS for a long time and I make a point of dissing it every chance I get.

I always like this statement....surprised it hasn't come up on this thread yet. I've read it on the inter-myth dozens of times, so it must be true.

I like using hard cast bullets 'cause they will always shoot thru end to end any game animal on the North American continent!

Everyone has a favorite bullet, but unfortunately, nobody has invented that "Magic" bullet yet.

 

[fishbones182]

Everyone has a favorite bullet, but unfortunately, nobody has invented that "Magic" bullet yet.

I wont lie i do get some leading in my barrels i dont know anyone that doesnt. I do love cast because of the savings and if i had major leading i more then likely wouldnt be shooting cast bullets. I have had very good luck with them myself. When you find that majic bullet thats cheap to use and hits dead center every time without aiming let me know id like to try a box of them.