.410 Failures?...

[johnbt]

"I think that people are more likely to complain about a 410 being ineffective because it is small."

Could be. I shot my first .410 in the mid to late '50s, owned my first one around 1960 and still have a Winchester Model 37. The .410 is small, there's no getting around it.

Five 000 buck pellets sounds good if you can keep all five on target. People seem to be a lot tougher targets than deer. And deer don't shoot back. Heck, people used to shoot buck shot at geese and turkeys with fair success and a big bird doesn't weigh all that much even if their feathers and fat act like armor. The problem ends up being the spread of the pattern and the big holes in the pattern. Do 5 pellets even make a true pattern or just some random holes?

 

[pelo801]

Do 5 pellets even make a true pattern or just some random holes?

i would guess that depends on what distance we are talking.

 

[seeker_two]

i would guess that depends on what distance we are talking.

...and the length and choke of the barrel....as well as the type of ammo....that's why checking your pattern on any shotgun is important....

 

[t4terrific]

I don't like The Judge. It's appeal is flawed. People think, "a shotgun round in a pistol", and love it. It's not a 12 gauge though, it's a .410. That's a round typically used by kids. Actual combat pistols are far more effective. If you want a shotgun, for home defense, use a real shotgun. I love 12, 16, and 20 gauge coach guns or other short barreled varieties.

That being said, a .410 slug is a large chuck of lead, flying very fast. Faster and bigger than many handgun rounds. It is deadly when placed in vital areas. That holds true for any good handgun round. Buckshot can be 5 30 something caliber balls traveling very fast, and hitting different parts of the body. It is very deadly when placed right.

I just don't think The Judge is the best platform to fire that round from. A short shotgun is more effective by the bed (larger gauge is better too). A true combat pistol (I prefer 9mm or .45acp if anyone cares) would be far more effective on your person.

.410 is deadly though, if it's the right round, placed in the right areas. To argue that, just doesn't make sense. 12 gauge #8's, in the ass, aren't usually lethal either.

 

[Bud Helms]

I have read through this thread and see no one advocating use of The Judge. This is not about a specific weapon. Let's not start a food fight over The Judge.

Stay on topic, please.

 

[44 AMP]

.410 slugs are 1/5 oz. That puts it at about 87.5gr. They come out of a standard length shotgun barrel at about the speed of a magnum pistol bullet. Out of a short barrel handgun, quite a bit less.

All shotguns operate at about the same velocity range (faster and the pattern suffers), so the difference is the mass of the shot charge/slug. Magnum shells don't go "faster", they throw a heavier charge at same speed.

While on average, people are bigger than they were 150 years ago, I won't say we are any tougher. .410 buckshot from a pistol is ballistically close to a .36 Navy cap & ball, and Wild Bill Hickock felt a brace of those was just the thing.

Nothing I have ever shot with a .410 (including use of the .410 in a 10" Contender) has behaved any differently than things shot with a bigger shotgun hit with the same number of pellets.

 

[Buzzard Bait]

I have my doubts

I have to wonder what kind of shape the buck shot pellets that are on the bottom of the stack are in when the leave the barrel. The 4 and five pellet round I would guess and that's all it is a guess that the pellet on the top first one out would be in good shape and fly true and penetrate well. The next would be damaged but still workable. Number four and five I'm afraid might be flat as washers and not fly true or penetrate well. I have a box of them and when time permits I want to experiment with them and see what comes out the barrel I'm using a full length shot gun barrel.
bb

 

[Greybeard]

I have been impressed with one particular .410 load developed in recent years. It is the Federal 4-pellet buckshot "handgun" load. When we have tested it at 7 yards out of at least three different Judges, the group is consistently in the range of 3 to 5 inches. I shot the same load out of a single shot shotgun with a modified choke last month and at 50', all of the pellets - and the shot cup - were together in a cluster that could be covered by my fist.

 

[johnbt]

".410 slugs are 1/5 oz. That puts it at about 87.5gr. They come out of a standard length shotgun barrel at about the speed of a magnum pistol bullet."

True, but it's a very light magnum pistol bullet. It's not even a 158 grain .38 Special bullet. And it's not a hollow point, is it? I almost got interested in a 28 ga. pistol before they killed the idea.

John

 

[Apple a Day]

I've done some backyard testing with different calibers/loads.
The .410 slugs FAR outperformed any pistol I've tried.

9x19mm FMJ= 900 pages
9x19mm 115 grain HP = 500 pages
.38Spl 125g +P HP=500 pages
9x18 95g FMJ = 700 pages
.32 ACP 71 grain FMJ = 620 pages
.22LR 36g HP from 6" bbl= 450 pages
.22LR 36g HP from 16" bbl= 950 pages
7.62x39mm = tore through three catalogues like Obamacare and kept right on going.

From a 22 inch barrel:
.410 1/4 Oz slug = 1600 pages
.410 1/5 Oz slug = 1160 and kept going
.410 000 buckshot = 855 pages
.410 Winchester PDX1 buck/ball= 810pages disks/275pages BBs
As always, keep in mind that this is just nonscientific backyards testing.
Cheers,
Apple