40 and 45

[Dashunde]

Most of the caliber comparison threads are between the 40S&W & 9mm - it makes sense, they even go through some of the exact same pistols.
But what about 40S&W & 45ACP? There are many threads comparing the Glock 22 to the Glock 21, but they usually focus on the pistols, not the cartridge.

I've always put the 45ACP at the top of the pistol pile, I guess because of its diameter and recoil, seems like a easy conclusion, no?

Would anyone say that 40 has a distinct advantage over the 45, aside from magazine capacity.

 

[Sarge]

The .40 generally shoots a little flatter but it's only noticeable beyond 50 yards. I am not convinced that it offers any terminal advantage over the 45 ACP but the .40 has proven adequate in the shootings with which I am familiar.

 

[overkill0084]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I find .40 to much harsher than .45. Even in a full sized 1911, 40 has a sharper feel.

 

[BusGunner007]

I prefer the .40.
I don't bash what anyone else prefers.

 

[TheRaskalKing]

I really like both. The .45 is a lot of fun to shoot. I feel a little more accurate with it as it is a lower pressure round than the .40. I love the big bore feel and potential for larger wound cavity.

For perhaps more practical reasons such as cheaper ammo and higher capacity, I like (and purchased) the .40. Plus a double stack .45 is a little big for my hands.

They're both very good, and I don't know that one has to be explicitly better than the other. It's a matter of personal opinion and taste.

 

[ScotchMan]

The .40 is very high pressure, the .45 is very low pressure. .45 will wear a gun a lot slower in addition to leaving a lot more margin for error with inconsistent charges. A minor point, but one not mentioned yet.

I much prefer .45, to me .40 is too similar to 9mm to justify any of its downsides.

 

[carguychris]

.40S&W Plus:

• Higher velocity = flatter shooting and more consistent expansion
• More rounds in a smaller pistol; generally friendlier to shooters with small hands
• Most popular modern 9mm pistols are also available in a .40S&W version
• Many .40S&W pistols can accept a .357Sig barrel for greater versatility
• Truly pocket-sized pistols with decent capacity are available
• Less expensive to handload due to physically smaller bullets and less expensive small pistol primers
• Can be used in 10mm Auto revolvers and some 10mm pistols

.45ACP Plus:

• Punches a bigger hole
• Consistently subsonic = works better when suppressed and generally less noisy to shoot; IOW more "neighbor-friendly"
• Punches a bigger hole
• Generally less "snappy" felt recoil
• Commonly available in popular M1911 platform
• Many neat historic firearms take it, including classic revolvers; OTOH .40S&W firearms are all less than 22 years old
• Less prone to problems caused by bullet setback
• More forgiving to handload due to large case volume and lower operating pressure
• Easier to see bigger holes in distant paper target

 

[Leejack]

No .40 koolaid for me.

To me, it's an in between round.

 

[ScotchMan]

Less prone to bullet setback

That's one I've not heard. Why is that?

I've never experienced bullet setback in ANY of my guns, but still curious what the difference is.

 

[5RWill]

I really like both. The .45 is a lot of fun to shoot. I feel a little more accurate with it as it is a lower pressure round than the .40. I love the big bore feel and potential for larger wound cavity.

For perhaps more practical reasons such as cheaper ammo and higher capacity, I like (and purchased) the .40. Plus a double stack .45 is a little big for my hands.

They're both very good, and I don't know that one has to be explicitly better than the other. It's a matter of personal opinion and taste.

I'm the same though i completely understand about the double stack 45. I don't own a 40 yet. Trying to decide whether or not to save up for a 1911 or cut it short and get a M&P40 and get a 1911 later. But i own a Glock 21, and it is manageable but it is slightly big for my tiny hands. I still shoot it pretty well though. I've considered trading it for an M&P45 providing it's as comfortable as the M&P40 that i held. Which was the most comfortable handgun i've held to date.

From the only 40 i've shot i do dislike the snappy feel of it, but that was my first time firing a handgun and my grip, trigger control, and recoil control has changed. Though i remember it seeming to send a large vibration down the palm of my hand that was uncomfortable. It was just snappy hehe.

 

[carguychris]

That's one [bullet setback] I've not heard. Why is that?

First, I should have written problems caused by bullet setback. (I've gone back and corrected my initial post.)

.45ACP has much larger case volume than .40S&W and operates at lower pressure. Therefore, a small amount of bullet movement has less effect on pressure. OTOH .40S&W has limited case volume and the case is relatively wide in relation to its length; consequently, a small amount of bullet movement can have a large effect on pressure.

 

[5RWill]

Then crimping will come more into play for the 40? Correct?

 

[geetarman]

When I shoot 9mm and 45, I really like them both. Pick up a .40 and it seems pretty harsh.

Last week, I shot quite a bit of .45 first and then switched to a Sig P226 in .40.

The Sig shot like a 9 and I had a ball with it. Mine is all stainless and it is heavy.

It works better for me to shoot 180 gr. bullets in it and stay away from the lighter bullets.

Geetarman

 

[RobertInIowa]

I like both the 45 and the 40. But I do prefer the double stack of the 40 over the 45. JMO.

 

[carguychris]

Then crimping will come more into play for the 40? Correct?

Yes, although a little more explanation is necessary.

Neither round is crimped at the case mouth because they both headspace there, so this type of crimp could cause excess headspace. However, quality factory SD ammo in both calibers (along with other auto pistol cartridges) often has a crimp applied further down the case near the base of the bullet. This helps reduce bullet setback, but it won't eliminate it, and most handloaders don't have the equipment to apply such a crimp.

IMHO it's a good time to repeat some warnings about bullet setback:

• DON'T repeatedly shuck the same top cartridge in and out of the magazine while repeatedly unloading and loading a pistol. Rotate cartridges and shoot them periodically, or better yet, adopt a storage or carry method that allows you to leave it loaded 24/7.
• DON'T use a round that has been dropped, unless you can measure it and verify that it's very close to other rounds from the same box. (Yes, this includes the round you found on the ground at the range, although that falls under another rule I like to follow: NEVER use ammo of unknown origin.)

 

[SRH78]

The 40 penetrates a little better otherwise it is six of one, half a dozen of the other.

 

[rodfac]

One of the stated reasons for a .40 caliber cartridge was the reduced recoil offered by its lighter bullet vs. the .45 ACP with 230 or even 185 gr bullets. My experience has been that it's minimal when compared in the same model hand gun. Reduced recoil should result in faster 2nd shot times, at least theoretically. While I've not shot the 135 gr weights in a .40, recoil levels from the 155, 165, and 180's feel about the same as 185's through at .45.

The above doesn't negate the .40 round's ability to be used in a double stack magazine for increased capacity, nor it's velocity advantage (due to it's higher SAAMI compliant pressure levels). It's still a great round, but, in the two guns in my safe, 90% of the time I choose a .45 over the .40 for range or woods loafing. Both are Colt 1911's BTW, and both have been "tweaked" by a good 1911 gunsmith for better functioning, fit, and trigger.

Best Regards, Rodfac

 

[ScotchMan]

DON'T repeatedly shuck the same top cartridge in and out of the magazine while repeatedly unloading and loading a pistol. Rotate cartridges and shoot them periodically, or better yet, adopt a storage or carry method that allows you to leave it loaded 24/7.

I take the opposite approach, I exclusively chamber the same round, inspecting it every single time, and discarding it as soon as I detect setback. This way I know that the rounds in the magazine are all completely fresh, and I only have one round to monitor at a time.

When defense ammo gets fired, of course the chamber round is the first one to go.

The very best solution is to never unload the gun (I do it very rarely as is), and to shoot your carry ammo every time you go to the range. This gets expensive though.

 

[mete]

Both rounds ,like all auto cartidges that headspace on the rim should be crimped with a taper crimp die !!
Repeated chambering will tend to set back the bullet.
I have used both cartridges ,the 40 from it's start.I don't think you could find much difference in actual use between the two.

 

[Noreaster]

In my opinion the advantage of the 40S&W over the 45acp is smaller frame pistol, more rounds and cheaper ammunition. There is a big difference in price of ammunition. In regards to stopping power, well the 45 acp is king but my current duty load of 165 grain 40s&w has a 94% one shot stop rating. Basically if your round is in the 90% range your good to go. Look at the charts and you'll see that the 45acp street results vary greatly on the round and barrel length. The 40S&W seems to achieve the velocity and energy needed to perform properly at shorter barrel lengths. I would not feel under gunned with a good 9mm, 40S&W or 45acp round.