.380 recoil

[samsmix]

Is it just me or do most .380 auto pistols actually kick more than a similar sized 9mm? I know it is because of the usually unlocked breach of most
.380s.

The reason for my question is that you hear so many people recomend
.380's for women with small or weak hands. My off-duty FEG PA-380 is harder to rack than many 9mm's I've shot. And, due to it's aluminum frame,
it kicks like a .357 mag! Even the all steel PPK backed up harder than my
Hi-power.

So why do folks recomend them for women and arthritis sufferers?

 

[Moloch]

Maybe the recoil is a bit higher due the fact that .380 pistols are usally very light and use the straight recoil system with a fixed barrel. Those pistols kickbsurprisingly hard compared to the size of the round.
I would not recommend .380 pistols for women, although they could handle them well if you teach them a good grip.

 

[samsmix]

My point exactly. I think it might come down to old cheuvanist views. You know the ones that said women should only carry Derringers, muff pistols and .25 autos. It makes no sense.

 

[Charshooter]

I don't think I would recommend the 380 to anyone, like a woman, who is likely to be overpowered easy. I think the small pistols fit small hands better and the looks of the small pistols attract women.

My wife thinks that the smaller you are, the bigger defense weapon you need ( consider we are not talking Bruce Lee here), she carries a 45 ACP while I carry a 380 when I carry anything at all.

 

[jeo556]

I might be out of line here because my .380 is all steel but are you guys serious?!?! A very small .380 may have more kick than a large frame 9mm but a .357 mag.......give me a break. Sorry to disagree but I just haven't had any expierence that backs these statements at all.


jeo556

 

[samsmix]

Actually, jeo, I was thinking of my aluminum frame gun which actually does feel like a .357.


Charshooter,

Your wifes point of view may be the most sensable I've ever heard.

Kelly

 

[Magyar]

I think there is some relevance in the similarity of recoil...Since acquiring a PPK in a .380 some months ago, it definitely has a bite more so than the 9mm. I believe the differences in weight & ergonomics makes it feel more than we would expect....

 

[Ozzieman]

I agree with JEO556

In many cases 380’s kick harder for some because there so small, it’s not the weight but the size and the fit to the hand. I have a walther PPKs and a Glock 26. I agree that in my hand the PPKs is a lot more uncomfortable than the G26, but in my wife’s hands the 380 is a cream puff and a PPKs is not a light pistol.
I also don’t agree with the fact that women can be overpowered. It has nothing to do with size of the person it’s only the experience level. One of the best shooters that I know is a 23 year old petite woman of 100 pounds that shoots a Colt Combat commander (alloy frame). She is very impressive and experienced.
I think a point is missed here that for a target gun yes recoil is uncomfortable. But for self-defense with the right training the level of recoil disappears with the level of adrenalin.
380’s are the perfect gun for some women and men as is the 44 mag. But to say that the recoil is so high that women should not own one I think is a mistake.

 

[AK103K]

I think it differs a lot from gun to gun. I always thought the felt recoil of my Walther's was worse than my lighter SIG P230's.

I dont see how you can compare the .380 to a 357MAG, in any loading for either.

 

[Deaf Smith]

The only .380 that kicks bad for me is the P3AT. And it kicks bad! Stings the hand. The PPK kicks some but my main beef is the slide cuts my hands. My CZ 83 don't kick worth a hoot (considering it's a 13 shot .380, all steel, what do you expect?)

Normaly .380s, ounce for ounce, do kick more than lock breached 9mms. This is cuase the lock barrel moves with the slide (more inerta) for the lock breached pistols than blow backs like .380s. If you want a lighter kicking .380, get a Colt 'government model' .380. I did!

 

[madmag]

You touched on it at the beginning. Almost (not all) .380's are blow-back and not locked breech design. This means nothing except the spring and slide weight to take the recoil. Not unusual for a light frame .380 to have more felt recoil than a 9mm (9X19) that has locked breech design. Locked breech takes up a lot of recoil to operate.

 

[jeo556]

Samsmix. Your Aluminum frame .380 may kick more than a 12" barreled, full underlug, .357 mag but I hardly think that is a fair comparison. What does your .380 weight? I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you are comparing apples to apples (similar size)like a S&W small frame to a aluminum frame .380 there is absolutley no way that the .380 is going to produce more recoil. I hate to argue about what amounts to two different peoples opinions and i guess I'm trying to understand how you, and others, think that this is possible. Sorry about the tone of this and the earlier thread, I'm not trying to be a smartass, just shooting the ****.

jeo556

 

[Iceman30]

Well I have to agree I just got a P-3at Kel-tec and it is a hand full...not to say that my wife wouldn't pull the trigger 6 times if needed...but for some target practice she hates it..I do compare it to my 40 s&w..very different..but the same...hard to explain..guess due to the size of the gun..

 

[williamd]

Sad, sad story. My wife used a PPK for her carry permit quals. Also had a S&W M36 3" on it. At the range one day we had exhausted 380 ammo supply and the 36 needed some cleaning, so being a nice spouse I 'loaned' her my 4" Pyhton, loaded it with the M36 loads and the rest is history. No recoil, easier to hold, etc, etc. The Python is now on her permit and I have a nice little M36.

She had trouble with the PPK until we worked on grip/hold some. You cannot be weak/limp wristed. Not only does it increase perceived recoil but it causes the gun to malfunction as the recoil is spent on wrist motion and not slide motion. The slide can bite, too. PPK's and PP's are very nice and functional weapons. Takes some time. Do not loan her the Pyhton!

 

[Richard]

Why do 380s kick so much? It is related to the fixed barrel (Bersa Thunder 380) that does not absorb recoil like a Browning link design (Kel-Tec 380). If you do not believe me, fire a Kel-Tec 380 and a Bersa Thunder 380 during the same range session. Regards, Richard

 

[Jim Watson]

My Colt Government recoil operated .380 is a much softer shooting gun than any blowback .380 I have shot, even those of similar weight. I would rather shoot my K9 than a PPK.

 

[NCHornet]

Williamd,
How did you and your wife get permits in CA? You must live in one of the few cities or counties that Issue. I use to live in Lake Arrowhead, Fontans and Santa Clarita, I left there over 11 years ago and have never looked back. The rediciulous gun laws and immigration sent me packing. Just curious how you got permits there.
As for the .380 having stronger felt recoil. I agree, I have a Sig P232, it's felt recoil is similar to my 92F in 9mm. Much of this is the design of the pistol as well as the weight of the gun. The P232 is no puny gun, but it is enough lighter that the felt recoil is greater.
As for whether or not a woamn or man should shoot any gun, I never make blanket statements like that. I always try and recommend that each person shoot as many guns as possible and buy what works best for them. For some it will be a straight blowback .380, others a 44mag wheel gun fits the bill. Who am I to say what somebody else should shoot?

 

[hj28rules]

Interesting and timely thread. Last weekend I took my girl-friend out to my place in the country (West Texas) for some shooting and she wanted to try a "big gun". She is signed up for a CCW class in May. We shot the Ruger P95 9mm, CZ75b 9mm, CZ83 .380, S&W .38. She wouldn't shoot my Para-Ord Tac-4 45 (too big). She liked the Ruger P95 best and the CZ83 least. Her reason: recoil of the .380 was way too much for her. She wanted to use the .38 for class but if she does, she is stuck with that restriction. If she takes a class with a semi-auto then she can carry what she wants. I was suprised at her reaction to the .380 recoil. I never noticed it. We went to Cabela's the next day and she bought a Tarus III Millineum Pro 9mm. "But it's sooo cute!!" Go figure.....

LM...Ft. Worth, Tx.
SFC US Army (ret. 1996)

 

[imatt]

My Kel-Tec .380 kicks quite hard, up there with the kick on my 6" 357 revolver (rubber grips) when shooting 357 mags.

 

[BlueTrain]

I would like to add my comment about the Colt Government .380 and confirm that it has the kick of a .22 rimfire, even when it is an alloy frame. The alloy frames are not common but there were come made with stainless slides. It is a locked breech .380. There have been others but not post-war. In fact, I sometimes think that a .32 ACP is better in an auto the size of a PPK because the .380 is so unpleasant, mainly because the slide can lacerate the hand. And by the way, there were some PPKs sold some 40 years ago with alloy frame, all in .32 ACP.

On the other hand there are "large frame" .380s like the current Berettas and the Browning variation thereof, and also the CZ83, all of which have fairly large grips. The Makarov, which you might think of as being on the large size, has a terrible kick for the caliber.

By way of comparison, a .38 special revolver has slightly less kick than most .380s, depending on the revolver and the auto (and the load), but the difference in the recoil of any revolver and any automatic is so dynamically different as to make comparisons hazy. Naturally, if possible, you want to have one of all of them.