.380 bullet question...opinions?
- Thread starter omegapd
- Start date
I tried the Winclean in my Bersa 380. Penetration aside these rounds were hitting the target all over the place. The Federal Hydrashoks and Remington Golden Sabres all grouped nicely. I always use a rounds accuracy as my starting point and the Winclean did not make the cut in my Bersa. It' all about hits. Forget the one shot stops and shoot until empty and if you have to, reload and shoot your target again. There no ethics in survival.
Full Metal Jacket
New member
9mm Makarov is more powerful than a .380 acp, right?
All my 380 run on CorBon 90grHP. That said FBI did think 10 in was ok at one time. and 30 years ago everybody carried Ball,SWC,WC,LRN as their wasn't many HP's and what was ,sucked. A lot of people went to hospital or 6'down from these bullets over the years. But now we are brainwashed it HP and 12" only answer.
I tried to jet out of this thread because JC came in doing what he does. Argues with anyone who will for the sake of arguing. He probably doesn't even own a .380. Go to KTOG or KTrange or any site populated by everyday users of the .380 caliber and see what they say. Resounding support of the GS 102 grain JHP almost without reservation. With their own terminal ballistic's tests to back their opinions up. He bases his dislike on the data provided on firearmstactical.com, which is 1998 manufacturers data, not even tested by the FBI. Whatever. The bottom line is anyone who uses this caliber needs to understand it's limitations and use a cartridge that works. There are MANY to choose from. GS 102 grain being one. I really do want to vacate this thread as certain folks here make posting on TFL cumbersome. Do your homework and make your own conclusions. Best.
U.F.O.
U.F.O.
I use the Remington 71 Gr FMJ only for practice by the way. The 32 and 380 are a lot more leathal than most people think. In this country we are too into power and numbers. It would appear that we are inventing more powerful rounds to make up for the lack of marksmanship. These are handguns-if something more powerful is needed then a rifle or shotgun is in order.
Thanks for all the replies so far. I was hoping this wouldn't turn into another FMJ vs HP thread but.... 
My gun is a Browning BDA. So far, it has fed everything very reliably and grouped very well with the WinClean stuff. Eventually I'll do some testing with this ammo on hard objects just to see if the round deforms more than a typical FMJ. For those that don't know, it looks like a soft point actually since the lead bullet is exposed at the top and covered on the sides with a brass base.
Again, thanks...
My gun is a Browning BDA. So far, it has fed everything very reliably and grouped very well with the WinClean stuff. Eventually I'll do some testing with this ammo on hard objects just to see if the round deforms more than a typical FMJ. For those that don't know, it looks like a soft point actually since the lead bullet is exposed at the top and covered on the sides with a brass base.
Again, thanks...
juliet charley
New member
I have a box of the Winclean .380s in my closet. The brass seems to wrap over the edges of the point--more like leaving the lead in the center exposed than a true soft point. I really doubt you'll see much deformation--particularly in a soft target.
The external ballistics 95-grains @ 955 fps second look OK. You could probably pick-up a little velocity by going to one of the European manufacturers like Fiocchi (their 95-grain TMC runs 1000 fps), but I doubt if it would make any difference.
My major reservation with the Winclean ammunition is that is designed strictly as a range/target load, and I am a little concerned that the emphasis (particularly with the primer) might not be a little too much on being "environmentally friendly" versus reliable. "Green" ammo has gotten much better, but I'm not sure I'm ready to trust it for defensive use.
There wasn't much chance of this not becoming a controversial thread. Too many people fervently want to believe the JHP automatically concurs some magic advantage in this calibre despite the figures clearly indicating otherwise (and the fact that the calibre is just barely maybe marginal for defence doesn't help).
When it comes to reliable penetration AND expansion, the .380 just seems to be a little too light and a little too slow. To get optimum .36 calibre in an autoloader you need to hit ~1300-1350 fps with 115-grain bullets, ~1150-1200 fps with 124-grain bullets and ~950-1000 fps with 147-grain bullets. The .380 just falls short all the way around. If it wasn't for the neat carriable/shootable little pistols chambered for the little round, it probably would have dropped off the list a long time ago.
The external ballistics 95-grains @ 955 fps second look OK. You could probably pick-up a little velocity by going to one of the European manufacturers like Fiocchi (their 95-grain TMC runs 1000 fps), but I doubt if it would make any difference.
My major reservation with the Winclean ammunition is that is designed strictly as a range/target load, and I am a little concerned that the emphasis (particularly with the primer) might not be a little too much on being "environmentally friendly" versus reliable. "Green" ammo has gotten much better, but I'm not sure I'm ready to trust it for defensive use.
There wasn't much chance of this not becoming a controversial thread. Too many people fervently want to believe the JHP automatically concurs some magic advantage in this calibre despite the figures clearly indicating otherwise (and the fact that the calibre is just barely maybe marginal for defence doesn't help).
When it comes to reliable penetration AND expansion, the .380 just seems to be a little too light and a little too slow. To get optimum .36 calibre in an autoloader you need to hit ~1300-1350 fps with 115-grain bullets, ~1150-1200 fps with 124-grain bullets and ~950-1000 fps with 147-grain bullets. The .380 just falls short all the way around. If it wasn't for the neat carriable/shootable little pistols chambered for the little round, it probably would have dropped off the list a long time ago.
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A long time ago I met a truck driver who carried a 380 for protection. He carried HP's and really believed that one bullet would blow apart a 55 gallon drum. Such is the myth of the hollowpoint. Ask any 44 Mag hunter what they hunt with and you will hear Hard cast flat nose LSWC- no hollow points. HP's are not made to go deep- their job is to prevent over penetration and ricochets with the benefit of more wounding power. The 380 niether has the large bullet diameter(45 ACP) or the high velocity working for it(9MM). It's leathality comes from the fact that it cuts or smashes tissue rather than blast a big hole or damage by hydrosatic shock. But you need to get the hits in the right areas and the smaller rounds are less forgiving when you miss. Most people carry HP-FMJ-HP-FMJ in their mags because of the 380 HP-FMJ debate. There is no right or wrong with this cartridge but if you can't shoot then you're screwed.