.38 +p Why?

K

Keltyke

Moderator
Never been in combat have you? You don't hear the noise or feel the recoil under combat conditions. I know from first hand experience.
Click to expand...

No, thankfully, I haven't. I doubt you've fired a snubbie
.357 mag. in combat, either. I asume you're talking about some sort of military service. I submit that's a far cry from civilian gun use.

The point you missed is, if the guy never practices with his full .357 mag. carry load, the first time he fires it - he'll be lucky to hold on to the thing.
 
B

Bear 45/70

Moderator
You shouldn't call me out like that without knowing the truth. I carry a 2 1/2" 44 Special daily, plus have a Charter Arms Undercover for a bug if I wish. Then there is the S&W 64-3. Then of course there is the Taurus 415 with ported barrel in 41 Mag. Nope, never fired a snubbie in my life. :rolleyes: I know you won't believe the list so here's a pic.

P6130005a-1.jpg


Top left down;
S&W 64-2 bull barrel, 38 SPL.
Charter Arms Bulldog, blued from the original Charter Arms, 44 SPL.
Taurus 415 2 1/2" ported, stainless 41 Mag.
Charter Arms Undercover 2" 38 SPL.

Top right down;
Ruger Redhawk 7 1/2" 41 Mag.
S&W 686+1 6" 357 Mag.
H&R 649 22LR or 22 Mag.
S&W 586 4"

Those are just the revolvers. How many snubbies and/or revolvers do you have?
 
1

18DAI

New member
Nice sixguns Bear 45/70. I'm lusting for a 4" 586. :)

I like the 64-3 3" myself. I keep mine stoked with the Ranger 110 grain 38+P+.

Not too awful loud. Not too much flash either. Super accurate.

That 3" 64 is one that S&W really got right. Regards 18DAI.
 
B

Bear 45/70

Moderator
The 586 is very slick. Has a trigger job for a 3 pound single action pull. The wife has kind of stolen it as her woods carry piece and hunting handgun.
 
K

Kreyzhorse

New member
Curiosity has got the best of me? Why is it that some one buys a .38 an the first thing he wants to do is shoot +P. Why not buy a .357 and not worry about it
Click to expand...

A +P 38 is a totally different animal than a .357. While I feel that a .38 is a good SD round, the +P option gives it a little more power.

To your point, you can buy a .357 and shoot all of them, but a .357 is typically priced higher than a .38. That arguement doesn't hold with the Ruger SP, but it certainly does with in the light weight S&W revolvers like the Airweights and AirLites.
 
B

Bear 45/70

Moderator
38 Special, max pressure=18,000 CUP, velocity with a 158 JHP, 865 fps
38 SPL +P, " " =20,000 CUP, velocity " " " " , 965 fps
357 Mag., " " =43,000 CUP, velocity " " " " , 1600 fps

Energy, same bullet;

38 SPL = 260 ft/lbs

38 +P = 325 ft/lbs

357 mag.= 895 ft/lbs


CUP = Copper Units of Pressure

fps = Feet Per Second

ft/lbs = Foot Pounds

That pretty much explains it.
 
Last edited:
D

David Armstrong

Moderator
Never been in combat have you? You don't hear the noise or feel the recoil under combat conditions. I know from first hand experience.
Click to expand...
Don't know why you would say that, as many folks report hearing the noise, feeling the recoil, and so on. Personally, when I popped off a 125-gr .357 Mag in a 2.5" S&W 19, in a gunfight, I definitely felt the recoil and heard the noise.
 
D

David Armstrong

Moderator
I'm alive, they're alive, and AFAIK we all have fairly normal adrenal systems.

BTW:
You shouldn't call me out like that without knowing the truth. I carry a 2 1/2" 44 Special daily, plus have a Charter Arms Undercover for a bug if I wish. Then there is the S&W 64-3. Then of course there is the Taurus 415 with ported barrel in 41 Mag. Nope, never fired a snubbie in my life.
Click to expand...
The issue he was talking about was not if you have ever fired a snubbie, it was if you had ever fired a .357 snub in combat. I note you didn't answer that.
 
B

Bear 45/70

Moderator
I posted this elsewhere, but here it is again.

38 Special, max pressure=18,000 CUP, velocity with a 158 JHP, 865 fps
38 SPL +P, " " =20,000 CUP, velocity " " " " , 965 fps
357 Mag., " " =43,000 CUP, velocity " " " " , 1600 fps

Energy, same bullet;

38 SPL = 260 ft/lbs

38 +P = 325 ft/lbs

357 mag.= 895 ft/lbs


CUP = Copper Units of Pressure

fps = Feet Per Second

ft/lbs = Foot Pounds

That pretty much explains it.
 
K

kraigwy

New member
I tried +Ps in my 642 and wasnt impressed. I found that my load (150 grn SWC cast bullet w/4.5 grns of 231) is faster, and out penitrates the +Ps (125 grn JHP). Which I found didnt have realibilities when it comes to expanding).

If I want a 357 I'd carry my Model 28 or 27. I carry the 642 because its light and conceals well in my pocket.

But thats me in my gun/ammo combination. Others may feel differant.
 
A

AZAK

New member
Then their adrenal system is very weak. Maybe that's why I'm still alive after all these years.
Click to expand...

I am unsure of how other people's health "problems" contributes positively to yours. And how this is germane to the topic at hand.

I do agree with the general direction that your numbers do led.

I personally, when carrying a S&W M60 snub nosed j-frame, normally carry +p ammo. (158 grain LSWHP +p)

I have carried snub nosed .357 mag with hot .357mag loads, and practicing with these did not last long.

I would rather carry a round that I am confident and practiced in, than a "fire breathing dragon" that I can not effectively control consistently. (And I normally carry hot 10mm for my CCW.)
 
B

Bear 45/70

Moderator
So if you want power and mild recoil why are you still using a 357? Step up to a 44 Spl. or a 45 ACP or even a 45 Colt. My 5'4" wife would call you a wuss if you think a 357 has a lot of recoil.
 
J

JohnKSa

Administrator
Whether or not you hear noise in combat situations is variable from one person to another and if there are any studies that tie that variability to the strength of one's adrenal system I'm not aware of it. It's not how strong the adrenal system is, but rather how the each individual's system reacts to the extreme stress.

However, all of that is somewhat irrelevant since hearing can still be damaged even if the person doesn't hear the noise due to the stress of the moment.
 
T

Tuzo

New member
What is the history of +p

Two generations of Sierra loading mauals (2 & 5) and Lee (2nd edition) for .38spl overlap in naming the same bullet and powder weight combination non +p and +p. What was once considered at the higher end of loading for a standard .38 in the older Sieera manual is not listed in the newer manual and is labeled +p by Lee. I am certain that other loading manuals have the same discrepancies between older and later editions. So what is the true background for +p? If I reference the earlier Sierra manual and load .38 spl to what is now considered +p will my little J frames blow up?

From Wikipedia:

"In the 1930s, heavy framed revolvers oriented toward target shooting, such as the Smith & Wesson 38/44 Heavy Duty, allowed development of a higher pressure (and therefore higher power) version called the .38 Special Hi-Speed and eventually, the .357 Magnum. These .38 revolvers, built on a larger frame originally designed for the .44 Special, survived for about three decades before the .357 revolvers outdid them in sales.[citation needed] Today, versions of this cartridge loaded to slightly higher pressure are available, called .38 Special +P; these are usable in .38 revolvers rated +P and in .357 revolvers.

"There is also a rarely seen high velocity load made by manufacturers such as Federal and Winchester, usually labeled (For Law Enforcement Only) and designated .38 Special +P+. This ammunition is meant to be only used in .357 revolvers and can cause significant damage to firearms rated for only .38 Special or .38 Special +P".
 
A

AZAK

New member
So if you want power and mild recoil why are you still using a 357? Step up to a 44 Spl. or a 45 ACP or even a 45 Colt. My 5'4" wife would call you a wuss if you think a 357 has a lot of recoil.
Click to expand...

I don't use .357mag at present.

Have owned and shot .44 spl and mag, .45acp, and .45colt. And many others. I never said that I did want mild recoil, just reliable controllability, and that varies from person to person. I have kept the .45acp. And as stated above, normally use 10mm for CCW.

No offense intended, but I really don't care what your wife's opinion of me would be, considering that she does not even know me.
 
P

Pasta4Breffx

New member
357s out of a J-frame? I've fired them here and there, and it is really only controllable using single action. I own the heavier Bodyguard 23 oz. S&W 649, and I'd hate to know what it would feel like out of a 13 oz Air Lite! The power of the round really wears down your hands, and while it's fun to shoot the big-kicking round, honestly ask yourself a couple of questions. Could you get reliable rapid follow-up shots using the 357? One handed? Off-hand? I don't think I'd be able to do any of that well, but with the 38 SPL I can.
 
D

Don P

New member
Ah mamzy pamzy carry a mans gun 357 MAG:p. Nice blast and plenty of power.:eek: Same reasoning as to why people want to use 9mm+ 45acp+. Go figure. What do I know? Carry a bazooka, flash, bang lots of damage:cool:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top