.38 +p Why?

[Russ5924]

Curiosity has got the best of me? Why is it that some one buys a .38 an the first thing he wants to do is shoot +P. Why not buy a .357 and not worry about it Don't want to argue just want to know

 

[Chesster]

In days gone by, the smaller lighter revolvers were in 38 and folks wanted to squeeze the most out of them. Don't know why they do it now.

 

[skydiver3346]

Why use a .38+P?

Pretty simple in my opinion: The extra "umph" by using a +P, usually results in better expansion of the bullet when fired by a snub nose pistol. That is pretty important when we are discussing a self defense type round for your small carry weapon. Most people that carry, like the smallness of using a 2" revolver or auto and the shorter the barrel, the less performance of the bullet you are shooting. Therefore, they choose the .38+P for more reliability of expanding the bullet. That is why I use a +P in my S&W model 60 carry gun.

 

[Keltyke]

There's a big difference in .38 spcl., .38 spcl. +p, and .357 mag. The +p round splits the difference in recoil and flash/bang.

If someone doesn't like the noise and recoil of a .357 mag., but feels a standard .38 spcl. is inadequate, they might shoot a .38 spcl. +p.

 

[awaveritt]

I cut my teeth on 38 special. Although I've never fired 357 magnum in a snub-nosed revolver, I can't imagine wanting more punishment than the +P load in my 638 Airweight Bodyguard at 15.7 oz. The lightweight snubbies and the +P load were just made for each other, seems to me. Besides, my son and 2 son-in-laws shot over 200 cast bullet loads with 3.5 grains of Bullseye out of our snubbies yesterday. Great fun, but with 357's - not so much.

 

[carguychris]

I think the reasons are fairly easy to understand.

• .38Spl revolvers are cheaper, both new and used. A used .357Mag revolver may be cheaper than a new .38, but not everyone wants a used gun. Furthermore, if you're shopping for a lightweight alloy-frame pocket revolver, the price for a .357Mag nearly doubles, and the guns are difficult to find on the used market because they've only been sold for a few years.
• .38Spl revolvers are much more plentiful on the used market. First, .38Spl was the standard law-enforcement caliber for generations, and most of those guns have now been dumped on the used market as police agencies rearmed with hi-cap semi-autos. Second, for many decades, .357Mag revolvers were marketed as the "Cadillac" of the gunmakers' lineups, i.e. a finely finished premium gun priced out of reach of the average working man.
• For basically the same reasons stated above, if someone inherits a gun, they're more likely to inherit a .38. Why not get the best possible use from something you got for free?
• The ballistic advantage of .357Mag is greatly reduced when fired from a <2.5" barrel because the barrel isn't long enough to burn all the extra powder. This is also why...
• .357Mag creates tremendous (many would say excessive) flash and bang when fired from a short barrel.
• Recoil from a lightweight pocket revolver, while not most shooters' idea of fun in either caliber, is a lot milder, more controllable, and less painful in .38Spl+P than .357Mag.

 

[Whirlwind06]

Well for me it was about $200.00. a .357 j-frame cost about $150 to $200 more. Does not seem like a lot but it is a price point thing.
Now that I know that I'm "into" revolvers a .357s j-frame is on my list. (maybe with a 3 inch barrel)

 

[CraigC]

There's a big difference in .38 spcl., .38 spcl. +p, and .357 mag. The +p round splits the difference in recoil and flash/bang.

If someone doesn't like the noise and recoil of a .357 mag., but feels a standard .38 spcl. is inadequate, they might shoot a .38 spcl. +p.

Exactly! There's a huge difference in recoil and blast between .38Spl +P and .357Mag. A difference of 15,000psi, that's a fair margin.

Personally, the .38Spl interests me greatly but I have absolutely no use for the .357, other than to convert them to something more useful. One little detail that may or may not matter to some, is the K-38 comes with a black post front sight, a comparable M19 has that infernal orange insert. Reason enough for me.

 

[SwampYankee]

+1

I could shoot +P .38's all day long in my 4" Security Six. But after about 50 rounds of .357, my fingers start to hurt and it stops being fun.

 

[armsmaster270]

38Spl started out as a low pressure load in 1899 and all 38Spl ammo has to be made to shoot safely in guns over 100 years old. Newer 38 Specials are made of better metals and can withstand the higher pressures. The ammo companies capitalized on rhe fact by making the +p for the newar guns to give them a little more power. Some Police agencies went to the +P+ Treasury load for their 38Spl's

 

[Shadi Khalil]

The .38 special is a great round for civilian self defense. I know that I wouldnt want to letting .357 fly in a crowded shopping mall or the like. I think that the +P only makes a good round better. People also want to carry a light gun that they can shoot well and practice with. I roll my eyes when I hear people say "I carry my 340 with stout .357 but only practice with .38's" The lighter .38's like the 642 alllow you to get real range time out of the gun instead of fooling yourself into thinking you can handle the .357's.

 

[Keltyke]

"I carry my 340 with stout .357 but only practice with .38's

The first time this guy fires his handgun in a combat situation, the recoil will probably rip it out of his hand. He'd better be good, he'll be afraid to fire it again.

 

[armsmaster270]

I have fired 357's in my 340PD and would not like to make a habit out of it they are quite punishing. I use Speer SB 135gr 38's in it.

 

[Elvishead]

A 38 is a 38, a 38+p is a 38+p, a .357magnum is a .357magnum.

Just do the math!

 

[Bear 45/70]

Quote:
"The first time this guy fires his handgun in a combat situation, the recoil will probably rip it out of his hand. He'd better be good, he'll be afraid to fire it again."

Never been in combat have you? You don't hear the noise or feel the recoil under combat conditions. I know from first hand experience.

 

[Daryl]

I wanted a lightweight .38 that will handle +p loads, and didn't want a larger, heavier framed .357 mag.

So, I have and carry a lightweight .38 special that will handle +p loads.

And I'm not a bit worried about it. My revolver says ".38 S&W special +p" on it, just so there's no question about that.

Any other questions?

Daryl

 

[B.N.Real]

I have thought about the 357 in the snub deal alot lately as I have thought long and hard about buying either a 38 hammerless snub or a 357 hammerless snub.

I fired a six inch barrel Dan Wesson 357 six times -three times then three times -a long time ago without hearing protection.

In that relatively long barrel gun-the noise was deafening.

In the snub it must be horrific.

But look at this.

If you are shooting that snub-you are doing it to save your life.

In ANY SNUB of small concealable size-you are only going to have five shots availible right away.

And that blast as bad as it is -must be ten times worse out the front of that barrel.

It is a fact that the 357 is way over the power level of the 38 or the 38+p rounds in the same bullet weights.

The +p exists in the snub to make up for the loss of velocity that comes with a short barrel.

But the 357 is such a more powerful round that in a firefight-

It would be a nightmare to shoot but also a nightmare for a bad guy to face.

Is the shooting issues with the 357 in a snub so bad that it's power is overrated by the failure to control the gun for follow up shots?

Or is it possible to train yourself to be able to at least control the thing so you can get those five shots downrange at seven yards onto a paper plate ( the size of a bad guys chest)?

I don't want to be deaf though,I have read that others have used 357's in firefights and permanently deafened themselves in the ear next to the barrel; when it was fired.

But then again,I don't want to be dead either with my stuntedly 'half perfect' hearing either.

Just some talking points.

I am leaning towards the 38 +p snub anyway.

 

[Laz]

There are some mid-range compromises that allow a .357 snub to use cartridges more powerful than .38+P but less than full-snort .357s. Speer's 135 grain .357 "short barrel" load is one. Remington 125 grain Golden Saber's is another. Various 110 grain loads like the Winchester USA brand JHP are loaded down from the full-power loadings (1295 fps vs 1450 from a 4 inch barrel) and are about like shooting .38 158 grain plus Ps, though with more blast. Most 158 grain loadings are less obnoxious than full-power 125s although they are still very loud and have heavy recoil in a snub. Some people find the 145 grain Winchester Silvertip to be preferable to a full-power 125, though I find them a bit much in my SP101 (for me). I like the 135 grain Speer load a lot. It will run around a 1000 fps from a snubby, more or less.

 

[18DAI]

Ahhh the Treasury load. That was great stuff in a 3" model 10 or 64.

More controllable than 357 with easier follow ups and less flash and bang. Less overpenetration worries as well, for those who worry about such things.

I use an equivalent load. Ranger 110 grain 38+P+. Good stuff. Regards 18DAI.

 

[Daryl]

In that relatively long barrel gun-the noise was deafening.

In the snub it must be horrific.

It is.

If you are shooting that snub-you are doing it to save your life.

or, at least for me, perhaps shooting a rabbit for dinner? I've done it.

In ANY SNUB of small concealable size-you are only going to have five shots availible right away.

ONLY 5 shots? That's plenty for me, but I mostly hit what I shoot at.

And that blast as bad as it is -must be ten times worse out the front of that barrel.

I don't shoot blanks; if they hear the gun go off, they'll have a bullet in them. Much more effective than scaring them to death.

It is a fact that the 357 is way over the power level of the 38 or the 38+p rounds in the same bullet weights.

It is indeed a fact. The .357 also has more noise, more recoil, and the revolvers are generally bigger and/or heavier. The .44 mag is bigger and more powerful yet, but how much do we need? It's a question debated often enough.

The +p exists in the snub to make up for the loss of velocity that comes with a short barrel.

Or in any other .38 special revolver. The +p loads generally have more power in all flavors of revolvers.

But the 357 is such a more powerful round that in a firefight-

It would be a nightmare to shoot but also a nightmare for a bad guy to face.

I haven't seen a BG that wanted to be shot with a .38, either.

Is the shooting issues with the 357 in a snub so bad that it's power is overrated by the failure to control the gun for follow up shots?

To at least some degree, yes. If you miss or don't stop the threat with the first shot, a second shot will be slower for most people with a heavier recoiling revolver. How much slower, and if it makes any difference might very well depend on the indivudual circumstances.

Or is it possible to train yourself to be able to at least control the thing so you can get those five shots downrange at seven yards onto a paper plate ( the size of a bad guys chest)?

It is possible to overcome the heavier recoil. How much harder it may be is again dependent on the individual.

I don't want to be deaf though,I have read that others have used 357's in firefights and permanently deafened themselves in the ear next to the barrel; when it was fired.

The .357 mag is just about the worst handgun cartridge I've ever shot for ruining a person's hearing. Most of the hearing loss I have today is from shooting jackrabbits and such with .357 mags as a teen-ager, without wearing hearing protection. How much any individual shot damages your hearing will depend on how good your hearing is to start with, and how many repeated shots are made without hearing protection.

But then again,I don't want to be dead either with my stuntedly 'half perfect' hearing either.

Then I suggest being very careful about protecting your hearing when shooting any cartridge, especially the .357 mag in a handgun.

I am leaning towards the 38 +p snub anyway.

Everything is a compromise. If you want light weight and manageable recoil, then you have to give up on some of the power that bigger cases can give you. If it's the extra velocity that makes you more comfortable with your chosen carry gun, then you'll likely give up some of the lightweight benefits, you'll have more muzzle blast, and you'll have more recoil. It's an individual choice, so a person should figure out just what they want before spending their hard earned cash.

As I said above, I carry a .38 special just about always. I have bigger handguns, but for every day carry I just don't see the need.