.357 Bullet weights

[Tim Whittaker]

I use 158 gr. Hydra Shoks now that it is getting colder (I live in NH) During the summer I use 125 gr. Gold Dots. I like the 158's because I think they will still perform going through heavy clothing. Any thoughts or comments on my school of thought? Does anybody know how to tell if there are markings to tell if ammo is full power or medium power? In case it matters, Ruger GP 100 3" ss hb fixed. ( My favorite deterent)....Whit

 

[Patrick Graham]

I'm a 158 grain kinda guy also.
To me full power in 357 mag is 16.6 gr WW296, 158 gr JHP, WSPM. Right out of the Winchester reloading pamphlet.
As far as telling how hot a 357 round will be by looking at the box, there is nothing that I can think of that would tell how hot it is unless the velocitys are on the box. Federal HydraShoks don't seem to be as hot as the regular Federal 357 mag ammo but that's not a bad thing. If you can find a box of regular Federal 125 gr JHP 357 mags you should give them a try, they are the hottest factory 357 I've found yet. At one time they were considered to be the #1 manstoppers.

 

[beemerb]

Most of the name brands of ammo have loading sites on line.They normaly will give the factory velocity of their ammunition

 

[355sigfan]

THe heavy stuff in 357 mag does not perform well. The 125 grian loads have the best ratings. ALso heavy bullets clog faster and are more adverly effected by heavy clothing.
PAT

 

[Brasso]

As far as I have been able to tell, in reading quite a bit of information on the subject of ballistics, I can find no source of information that disputes the fact that heavier bullets are affected by coats more so than lighte ones, and so must disagree with the statement that the 125gr bullets will out penetrate the 158gr ones. While there is the "possibility" that they may not expand as well, I would rather they actually penetrate the torso rather than expand in the coat lining or a layer of blubber. It's always a give and take in ballistics. Luckily, the .357mag is quite capable with just about any load you can come up with. I only feel comfortable using the 125gr loadings for home defense. When I carry about, I keep 158gr golddots in it. I have seen enough footage and listened to enough training to know that the 125gr loads do not work well on large individuals or through barriers very well. They cannot be relied on to penetrate the torso with anything but a direct frontal body shot, and that exludes large amounts of fat, muscle, or heavy clothing. Even with direct frontal body shots the 125gr loads only penetrate the bare minimum of 8 to 10 inches, if they do not encounter bone. If they manage to clog and penetrate farther, then you have lost nothing by going with the 158gr to begin with. In the end, you will form your own opinion and probably carry the 125gr loadings because the false myth of energy transfer refuses to die.

 

[Coolray]

I agree with Brasso. After reading all I could find on bullet performance I have changed my defence load in my personal carry guns. During the winter (up north) heavy coats are the norm, So in my 1911A1 I shoot 230gr JRN for penetration, same type of bullets when I carry my 9MM or my .44 I feel that the JHP would expand to fast going into a heavy coat to be effective. The Speer Gold Dot HP will frag into 4 large pieces, great for a soft body shot,maybe not for a heavy coat shot. However I shoot the Gold Dot every other time of the year and still have them loaded in my HD guns. I just changed the rounds on my carry guns.

 

[355sigfan]

Brasso


ITs not the bullet weight but rather velocity that makes heavy bullets perform not as well as the 125 grain loads. ALso no JHP will expand in a coat or any material. It needs fluid. The coat will clog the bullet delaying or stopping expansion all together. Faster bullets are able to get the material out of their nose quicker and still expand. I live in a very cold area and I have done a fair amount of testing with heavy clothing and bullet expansion. Also certain bullet designs do better in clothing than others. Golden sabers are the least effected by clothing where hydra shocks nearly always get clogged and become ball. Gold dots normally go as deep as 18 to 20 inches after clothing in some calibers a rather than 14 to 16 inches. IN 40 the 165 grain loads do better thand the 155 grain loads because of thier larger Hollow point opening. In 357 mag the 125 grain remington and federal load that normally fragment will just expand rather than fragment and will go about 2 inches deeper in gelatine. Understand this clothing always makes jhp's go deeper and not shallower.
PAT

 

[RWK]

Whit,

I take the opposite approach: 125 gain in the winter and 158 grain in the summer. I do this because, with any .357 magnum load, penetration is unlikely to be an issue. However, hollow point expansion -- which, in part, is a function of velocity -- can be an issue when piercing heavy clothing (e. g., layered clothing “jamming up” the hollow point and precluding expansion). Therefore, I opt for the higher velocity 125 grain loads in the winter.

All this said, I feel very well protected with either round in my GP-100.

 

[denfoote]

My .357 is used primarally for home defense, so I load it with 125gr Triton Quik Shoks. In an apartment setting, the frandgible bullet will not go through the walls as easily. Here in AZ heavy coats are usually not the norm.

 

[355sigfan]

The quik shock is an excellent round but it is not a true fragible and it will not break up in bulding materials. It needs fluid to make it exapnd and fragment. The Magsafe swat load would be a better choice for apts.
PAT

 

[Tim Whittaker]

Thanks to all. Good info, lots to think about, I hope one of these days I get attacked by ordnance gelatin and get to test both theories.LOL......Whit

 

[Adamantium]

355sigfan: How much do you really think a velocity is an issue here though? A 158 grn. bullet out of a .357 mag has the MV of about 1200 fps. Thats more that most other defensive loads period, light or heavy weight. Plus it is not like huge ammounts of velocity are needed. Look at the .45 ACP, the popular 230 grn. defensive loads do around 850-900 fps.

Whit: I prefer the 158 loads over the 125 for .357 mag. If the bullet clogs than the bullet clogs, it wouldn't matter what you are using, it will exit out the back of whoever you shot. But if it does expand you still have more than enough velocity in a 158 grn. JHP for it to properly expand, plus you'll get more penetration because of the extra weight. I also consider overpenetration as somewhat of a moot point because JHP's don't always expands, and statistically, most rounds fired in a gunfight miss anyway.

Sincerely,
Adam

 

[AmericanFreeBird]

You can leave the ballistic analysis to these experts, but IMHO the heavier the bullet the more energy transferred to the target on impact, regardless of penetration, he/she is going to know they've been hit and hit hard with a .357mag, period.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I use 125-gr. HPs.

In .38 Spl. it's +P Federal Nyclad.

I think, but I have no proof of this, that the Nyclad MIGHT have a better chance of expanding even after the HP plugs up because they are made from pretty soft lead. That would tend to give you a "crush" factor that could cause some expansion.

I'd like to carry the Nyclads in my .357 Mag., but I don't like ordering ammo via mail, and I have yet to see any Mag. Nyclads (and VERY FEW Nyclads at all, for that matter) at any of the gunshows I attend.

Getting right down to it, how many of us also carry a 9mm, and carry 115s or 124s in it all year round? I know I do, and I've never thought about changing ammo just because of the change in seasons.

 

[WESHOOT2]

If you buy mine you can bet it's full power LOL.

Markings include: wet pants, sunburn, deafness, numbness in firing hand, giant ****-eating grin, etc....

 

[Adamantium]

Weshoot2: How does yoyr 140 grn. XTP's preform compared to the 125's and 158's? I've looked around your page and always wondered how much of a compromise those are.

In my handgun reloading book they also had the 140 grn. loads the msot accurate with Serria's and Hornady's JHP's(behind H110) grouping at about .45 and .5 inches at 25 meters out of one of those Ransom firing gigs. Book was Gun Digest Book of Handgun Reloading BTW.

Also, just to compare apples to oranges, how would you rate the .38 spl LSWCHP +p to the .357 mag loads? how much do you think is gained by the extra recoil/velocity?

Sincerely,
Adam

 

[ellsworthtoohey]

Not all JHPs need fluid in order to expand. It's only the new generation of 'high tech' JHPs that resemble the JHPs of past generations, designed for autoloader feedramps, that do. Get a 158gr. JHP that has alot of lead sticking out above the jacket (Winchester, Remington, CCI, Federal) and you will not have to worry about expansion ever again, regardless of the medium. Lead at 1100-1200 fps. expands whether it penetrates fluid or cotton. 158 grs. will provide you with enough mass to achieve the adequate penetration you will need with the rapidly expanding bullets from the above manufacturers.

 

[WESHOOT2]

Adam,


The 140 is a compromise, but a valid one. They go slower than the 125, but faster than the 158 (no ****). Very accurate (in most guns).
I prefer the 125g for defense, and 158/180g for hunting. I offer the 140g XTP just because it's so accurate in my personal guns, and fills a void for those too confused to pick the correct weight for their specific needs.

As for 38 Special ANYTHING compared to .357 stuff, HAH! The 38 Special 158g LSWC-HP in +P configuration is good for (4" tube) maybe 1050fps. Figure an easy 1550-1600fps in a 4" .357.

Is there a specific function you'd like to accomplish?

 

[LIProgun]

IMO the 158 grain weight is better left for hunting than self-defense. Check out the penetration depths on these loads, including the Federal HydraShok.

As for the 125 grain loads, my primary problem with them is excessive noise and blast. I'm no sissy, and I don't mind recoil. But shooting plenty of 125 grain full power magnum ammo in indoor ranges leads me to conclude that in a defensive shooting (i.e., indoor), I'd probably be deaf after the first shot.

I much prefer the 145 grain Winchester Silvertip HP. A good compromise of penetration and expansion, without the excessive blast and noise of the 125 grain loads. I also find these loads have low muzzle flash. Maybe that's why this load was chosen by the FBI for SAs authorized to carry magnum ammo in their 3-inch S&W Model 13s.

Another good load for snubbies is the Remington .357 Mag 125 grain Golden Saber, which is a "medium velocity" load. Much less blast and noise, with decent ballistics.

 

[GunFool]

I'd have to agree with the Winchester 145gr. Silvertips. I only own one handgun at the moment, so I've had plenty of time to try a lot of different .357 Mag loads. I'm almost surprised that this isn't a more popular choice...