.32 Caliber Revolvers

Howdy

I am not aware of any single book that is going to be just about 32 caliber revolvers. If you are interested in S&W revolvers, the best book on the market is the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson by Supica and Nahas. This is book is a survey of everything S&W has made from 1857 until the present. I have the 3rd edition, which was published in 2006, so it ends there. I just ordered the brand-spanky new 4th edition which just came out a few months ago, so it should be current right up to now. There is one other book I can recommend, Smith & Wesson, 1857-1945 by Neal and Jinks. This book goes into much more detail about each model, than SCSW. But for a first book, the SCSW is recognized as a great source to start to get familiar with everything S&W has ever made. In it you will find information about all the 32 caliber revolvers they made.

With the success of SCSW a few years ago, there have been 'Standard Catalogs' published about most of the major gun manufactures recently. None of them lives up to the level of SCSW, but they are not too bad. I use my Standard Catalog of Colt Firearms by Rick Sapp almost as much as I do my SCSW. If you want to know more about cartridges, Cartridges of the World by Frank C Barnes is always a good place to start.


OK, let's talk about 32 caliber cartridges. The following photo does not show every 32 caliber cartridge ever made, but it shows one of each from my cartridge collection. Left to right they are 32 Rimfire Short, 32 Rimfire Long, 32 Short Colt, 32 S&W, 32 S&W Long, 32 Colt New Police, and 32-20. Sorry, I do not have any 32 H&R cartridges and 327 Magnum is much too new a cartridge to be in my collection. Also missing from my collection is 32 Long Colt. An editorial comment here. There is no such thing as the 32 S&W Short cartridge. It is simply the 32 S&W, period. When the later, longer cartridge was introduced, it became known as the 32 S&W Long. More about that later.

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OK, let's talk about 32 caliber revolvers a little bit. Again, these are only what I have in my collection, there are many others, but these are a good starting point. Here are four old Smith and Wesson 32 caliber revolvers. The two on the left are called Tip Ups and the two on the right are Top Breaks. Tip Ups were the first revolvers S&W made, starting in 1857. The first one was a tiny little 22 caliber revolver. The Tip Ups were designated by frame sizes, #1, #1 1/2, and #2. They are called Tip Ups because to reload you release the catch at the bottom of the barrel, and rotate the barrel up. The barrel rotates around the screw you can see at the top of the frame. The two Tip Ups in this photo are both 32 caliber, they fired the 32 Rimfire cartridges on the left in the photo above. The small one is a five shot # 1 1/2 Tip Up that was made in 1873. The larger one is a 6 shot #2, also known as the Old Army model that was made in 1863. The Old Army is the largest and most powerful Tip Up that S&W ever made. They experimented with a 44 caliber design, but the Mechanism was not strong enough for 44 caliber. The Old Army model was bought by many Northern troops in the Civil War.

Top Breaks differ from Tip Ups because the barrel rotates down in a Top Break. It rotates around the pivot screw visible in the frame. They are called Top Breaks because they 'break' at the top of the frame. Top Breaks were more complicated guns than the Tip Ups, they featured an automatic ejector that ejected the empty shells when the gun was broken open. The Top Break at the top right of the photo is a 32 Single Action. It shipped in 1881. Notice it has a spur trigger. S&W also made double action 32 caliber Top Breaks that had a trigger guard, but I do not have one in my collection.

The revolver at the bottom right of the photo is called a 32 Safety Hammerless. It shipped in 1905. These were double action only revolvers, the hammer is hidden inside the frame. They were sometimes called Lemon Squeezers because of the grip safety at the rear of the grip. The Safety Hammerless revolvers were made in both 32 and 38 caliber.

Now, notice how much shorter the cylinders are on the Top Breaks than on the Tip Ups. That is because the Tip Ups fired either the 32 Rimfire short or long from the cartridge photo above, while the 32 Top Breaks only fired the very short 32 S&W round. The 32 S&W round was developed in 1878 for the 32 Single Action revolver at the upper right of the photo.

All of these guns are antiques. I doubt you will be looking at a Tip Up, but you should know they are not a very strong design. The little #1 Tip Ups were designed for the 22 Short, but they should never be fired with modern 22 Short ammunition, only ammo loaded with Black Powder. The same for the 32 caliber Tip Ups, only Black Powder 32 Rimfire ammo. Of course, 32 RF ammo is not made any more. You will find plenty of shooters who feel it is OK to fire modern Smokeless ammuntion in the centerfire Top Breaks. I am not one of them. I will only fire Black Powder ammunition, which I load myself, in a Top Break.

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Now let's move on to more modern S&W 32 caliber revolvers with cylinders that swing out to the side. The revolver at the bottom of this photo is a 32 Hand Ejector, 1st Model. Hand Ejector simply means that unlike a Top Break, you had to eject the empties manually by pushing back the ejector rod, it was not automatic the way it was with a Top Break. The 32 HE, also known as the model 1896 was the first revolver S&W made with a side swinging cylinder. This one shipped in 1898. This is the revolver the 32 S&W Long cartridge was developed for. This is the 32 caliber round that all the S&W 32 Hand Ejectors was chambered for, except the 32-20 HE. Of course, the shorter 32 S&W round could be fired in them, just as a 38 Special can be fired in a 357 Magnum. The 32 HE 1st Model is easily recognized because of the squared off appearance of the frame near the hammer. The 32 HE 1st Model was also unique in that it had a locking mechanism that hearkened all the way back to the Tip UPs. The cylinder bolt was in the top strap, not down below the cylinder as with every other revolver S&W made after that. The 32 HE went on for many more models, the frame evolved into what is known as the I frame.

The revolver in the center of the photo is a 32 Regulation Police. It was chambered for the 32 S&W Long round. This one shipped in 1925. It is interesting to note that enough policemen were carrying this little 32 caliber revolver that S&W named the model after them. The Regulation Police model was also chambered for 38 S&W. But the I frame cylinder (about the same size as a modern J frame) could only hold five 38 caliber rounds.

The 'large' revolver at the top of the photo is a 32-20 Hand Ejector. It shipped in 1916. It is built on the K frame, the same frame the 38 M&P and Model 10 is built on today. A revolver this size was needed for the much longer 32-20 round, as can be seen in the cartridge photo. This photo gives a good idea of the relative sizes of the K frame and I frame 32 caliber revolvers.

Missing from my collection is the highly sought after K-32 or Model 16 as it became known in 1957. This was a K frame companion to the K-22 and K-38, chambered for the 32 S&W Long cartridge. They are highly sought after by collectors and so they are not cheap. They looked pretty much like the 32-20 HE at the top of the photo, but they had target sights.

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Finally, here are three 32 caliber Colts. The one at the top is a Police Positive Special chambered for 32-20. It shipped in 1926. This gun is the same size as the Police Positive Specials that were chambered for 38 Special, and has the same long cylinder required for the 32-20 round. It is slightly smaller than a K frame Smith.

Below that is a Police Positive 32, chambered for 32 Colt New Police. If you look at the cartridge photo you will see the 32 Colt New Police is basically the same as the 32 S&W Long, except it has a flat nosed bullet. This is a smaller gun than the Police Positive Special, it is roughly the same size as a S&W Regulation Police.

Finally, the little revolver at the bottom of the photo is a 32 Pocket Positive that shipped in 1908. This little gun is chambered for the 32 Long Colt cartridge. 32 Short Colt and 32 Long Colt used a heeled bullet, with the cartridge case the same diameter as the bullet. A 32 S&W or 32 S&W Long cartridge will not chamber in this revolver.

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So that is a brief overview of 32 caliber S&W and Colt revolvers. Just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. I have bought all of these in the last few years, none of them has been exorbitantly expensive, but none of them has been cheap either. They are fun to shoot, and the ammo is available and not too expensive. Be sure what caliber you are getting. Stay away from 32 Short Colt and Long Colt. For shooters, I would stay away from the Top Breaks too, unless you want to load your own ammo with Black Powder.

But that's just me.
 
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2damnold4this

New member
Nice collection Driftwood Johnson. Thanks for sharing it.


The only .32 revolver I have is a 31-1 S&W. This thread has inspired me to get it out of the safe and shoot it a bit.
 

ThomasT

New member
I've never explored the world of .32 myself.

Then why respond?

I am a big 32 caliber fan. I have several 32 long and a few 32 mag revolvers and a 32 mag marlin along with a 32ACP Walther PP. So I like 32s. I never really took to the 327 because I rarely ever load my 32 mags to full power. But I am all for anything that promotes 32 caliber guns.

The old top breaks and early 32s are cool old guns. If you want to collect then go ahead. If you want to shoot then look for the newer versions like the models 30 and 31 in 32 long. I have two 32 mag Ruger Single Sixes with 5.5" barrels. They cost me a fair amount of cash but were worth every penny. I also found my Holy Grail gun, A S&W model 631 32 mag. It has a 4" barrel and adjustable sights. And as much as I like it I still like the Ruger Single sixes better. And I paid some serious bucks for the 631. But I don't regret the purchase at all.

So welcome to the world of 32 caliber guns. Its a fun place to be. Gil Sengal wrote an excellent article in Handloader mag about the history of 32 caliber handguns and its worth the search to find a copy.

There are lots of us 32 caliber nuts here. You will find all the help you need. To take full advantage of the round you should consider reloading. There are so many old guns around the factory ammo is watered down pretty bad. Buy some of the newer 32 guns and you can bump the power up quite a bit. Have a look at this website. This guy is a 32 fan himself and a premo reloader with a ton of good advice. His loads will take you past the pop gun loads you get with current factory ammo in 32 long.

http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/backcreekdiary.htm

http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/32longnotes2.htm
 

ligonierbill

New member
Thanks, Driftwood, nice collection. FWIW, I saw a K-32 on GB last week (?). Don't know if it went anywhere, but the minimum requested bid was $3,000. Is it true that S&W only made 2,000 - 3,000 of these?
 

OneFreeTexan

New member
32 H&R Mag

I have a Dan Wesson kit,(several changeable barrels) in 32 H&R Mag, and it is without a doubt the finest revolver I have ever owned, and that has been a few. It was from Dan's 'good' period of manufacturing. The gun is tight, shoots great. And I love it so have bought a few mor 32 H&R's . I like this caliber, reload now. Highly accurate at revolver distances. don't think I would need another caliber.

Of course, I lost all my guns in the flood, so have none now.
 

TruthTellers

New member
Thanks Driftwood, that was a good overview of the top two wheelgun makers of the late 19th and early 20th Century.

If you are privy to the info Drift, I'd like to hear more about early H&R's and Iver Johnson top breaks.

Well, now everyone can see why I like the look of the old Colt DA's over the S&W's :)
 
Well, now everyone can see why I like the look of the old Colt DA's over the S&W's

No, I don't see that at all.

Can't help you much with Iver Johnson or Harrington Richardson, never had much interest in them. I don't own any HRs, I only have one IJ.

I can tell you this much about IJ though. Sometime around the turn of the century, Iver Johnson completely redesigned their line of revolvers. They started using better steel, and these guns are safe to shoot with Smokeless powder ammunition. The earlier guns are not.

There are three identifying features to the later 'Smokeless' IJ revolvers. The little owl on the grips faces backwards, the cuts on the cylinder for the bolt have two hard edges, so the bolt is confined on both sides, and if you remove the grips the hammer spring is a coil spring. This one is a five shot 38 S&W Safety Hammerless.

IverJohnsonHammerless01.jpg





The earlier Black Powder IJ revolvers had the little owl facing forwards, the bolt cuts only had one hard edge, the hand prevented the cylinder from rotating backwards, and the hammer spring was a leaf spring.

I would advise staying away from the Black Powder models and only buying a Smokeless model.

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Iver Johnson had a long running advertising campaign called Hammer the Hammer. This is because IJ developed the transfer bar. So they felt their guns could be pounded on without fear of accidental discharge. I don't know exactly when S&W and Colt began installing hammer blocks, which are a redundant way of preventing a dischage if the hammer is struck. They already had rebounding hammers, but the hammer blocks added an additional measure of safety. Colt patented the Positive Lock in 1905. The earliest S&W with a hammer block in it in my collection was made in 1917. But I do not know exactly when hammer blocks first appeared in S&W revolvers. I'll see if I can find out.

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Here is the patent drawing for Iver Johnson's Transfer Bar system.

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Sorry, I can't tell you anything about Harrington Richardson.


Howdy Again

New information. S&W began installing hammer blocks around 1915. The earliest S&W in my collection with a hammer block in it left the factory in 1917.
 
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thibaultfelix40

New member
Many of the Colts that are suaposed to have timing problems don't. The hand pushes the cylinder into the locked position as the trigger is pulled. If you hold an old Colt up and cock it and pull the trigger you will see the cylinder jump into final lock up usually. There have been gun smiths who would "fix" this so those not in the know wouldn't think there was a timing problem. This allows the Colts to function with almost no cylinder gap at time of fireing.
A load I developed for my break action smokeless improved in 32 S&W short is one grain of Unique behind a Hornady single naught (0) buckshot lubricated with Lee liquid Alox. It might kill a mouse.
Not only did Iver Johnson develope the transfer bar but also the safe action trigger several decades before Glock.
Sometime around 1900+/- H&R put strong trigger springs in guns to prevent children from firing them.
 

rodfac

New member
To the OP: I know that you're focused on the .32's, and I like 'em too. I have both the Ruger Bird's Head model Single-Six in .32 H&R as well as a S&W Model 16 with a 4" barrel. Both will shoot groups that are beyond my old eyes' capability. The 2nd pic below is of my Smith Hand Ejector in .32-20; another favorite.

That said, I'd like to encourage you to check out some of the really old Smiths and Colts out there. As a general rule, I find they're better fitted than their modern counterparts and the finishes, in almost new condition, are always better.

If you hand load, and that's going to be essential for usefulness with any .32, there are some good bullets out there by Hornady, especially, that offer performance and economy. Their JHP's are good up to 1100 fps or so from my guns, and the swagged lead alloy types are great for casual plinking (and nearly good enough for more formal target work with groups running down near an inch at 25 yds for me).

The 1st pic below shows my old Uncle Bill's Colt Police Positive in .38 S&W and a target I shot two days ago; Weaver stance from 7 yards. My uncle carried it as gate guard for Bethlehem Steel; and in all probability shot less than a box of ammunition in the 30 years that he owned it. While it's a .38 S&W, and not your chosen .32, you'll note the grouping....superb from a gun that was built in 1920, and with Colt .38 New Police ammunition from the late 40's.

Old beauties like this one are out there, and relatively cheap if not in 'as new condition', and better yet, will shoot with some of today's best. You'll forgive me for adding that putting one back in service, gives a lot of satisfaction to a shooter, old or young!

Best Regards & PM me if you're interested in loads for the .32 H&R & .32-20, that have worked in my guns. Rod



 
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"Also during WW II some defense plant guards carried S&W Victory models in .32-20 caliber."

Not Victory models in .32-20.

Production of .32-20s ceased early in 1940 (if not earlier) as S&W concentrated on both the Light Rifle project for Britain and trying not to go out of business because the company was in such tenuous financial shape after the depression.

Supposedly some .32-20 chambered revolvers were sent to Britain in middle 1940, but by the time the V serial number prefix was adopted in for use in 1940 the .32-20 Hand Ejector was a memory.

It is very likely that .32-20 revolvers were put into the hands of plant guards during the war, as they would have been available and, more importantly, would have freed up .38s for shipment to either the US military or our allies.
 
I'm wondering, did anyone ever make a top break in .32 S&W Long?

Howdy Again

I think the answer to your question is no. I am not absolutely sure, but I suspect it is no.

S&W did not. The 32 S&W Long cartridge was not developed until about 1896 for the 32 HE 1st Model. All of S&W's 32 caliber Top Breaks were chambered for the shorter 32 S&W round.

Colt did not make any Top Breaks.

It appears to me that all of Harrington Richardson's 32 caliber Top Breaks were chambered for the 32 S&W cartridge. The only mention I see of a 32 S&W Long chambering is for a revolver with a swing out cylinder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%26R_Firearms

From what I have seen, it appears to me that Iver Johnson too limited their 32 caliber Top Break revolvers to 32 S&W.

That is about all I know on the subject.
 

TruthTellers

New member
Thanks Driftwood, I expected as much.

To anyone else that reads this thread, if you know or have good sources to cite, I'd like to know more about the Victor and American Double Action models. As much as possible. Whether they're chambered for .32 S&W Long, years of manufacture, and if they were black powder only or could handle smokeless.
 

eastbank

New member
i bought a used ruger single action in 32 mag in the smaller frame and its a nice revolver and you can shoot the shorter .32,s in it and you can good hotter if you want to with the .32 mag. eastbank.
 
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