300h&h

tyrajam

New member
WOW JUNE OF '09? What a hassle. I guess that makes our regs seem not so bad, at least until Hillary takes power...
Keep us posted with pics as you get them. Any more info on the build? What action is he using?
The 250 Savage is a fun old round for medium game, is it a savage 99 (one of my all time favorite rifles) by any chance?
 

44 AMP

Staff
.300 H&H is the grandfather of .30 magnums

Introduced in 1925, it and the .375 H&H (introduced in 1912) were the original belted magnums. In fact, the term "Magnum" was first applied to these rounds by Holland & Holland as a marketing ploy, deriving from the name for a larger than standard bottle of champaigne. The H&H Magnums had larger than standard cases, and delivered higher velocities than previously available. The .300 H&H has a long tapered body, without much of a shoulder, making reloading somewhat challenging for maximum case life, as it headspaces on the belt, chamber and sizing die dimensions vary a bit.

The .300 H&H case has been the parent case of several wildcat rounds, someof which eventually became standard factory items, such as the .300 Weatherby. The .300 H&H gets about 200 fps more velocity than the .30-06, and 1-200 fps less velocity than other .30 magnums, based on the blown out (expanded) H&H case body, which hold a bit more powder.

The 300 H&H or 300 Super as it is also known, was a low pressure round. It was developed to duplicate the ballistics of the older 30-06, but at lower pressure for reliability.

This statement is not accurate. Although the .300 H&H was also known as Holland's Super .30, there is no "older .30-06" loading duplicated by it, it infact outperforms the modern .30-06 loadings by a significant margin. The original .30-06 loading was the GI ball, either a 173gr @ 2640 +/-30fps or a 150gr @ 2740 +/-30fps. The .300 H&H shoots the 150 @ 3190fps and the 180gr @ 2920fps (given slight variation for indiviual rifles and barrel lengths).

Although introduced in 1925, only Griffith & Howe custom rifles were available in .300 H&H until 1937 when Winchester chambered the Model 70 for it. Remington also chambered the model 721, and later model 700 in this caliber, somewhat later. Modestly popular as the "big stick" of .30 caliber rifles, the popularity has faded since the introduction of the "short magnums", and larger capacity magnums, like the .300 Weatherby, beginning in the late 1950s. They are known as short magnums because they are shorter than the .300/.375 H&H, and will fit into standard (.30-06) length actions, which the H&H rounds will not. More recently there has been a number of "super short magnums" introduced, which use even larger diameter case bodies, without belted heads. They are completely different cartridges, and should not be confiused with "regular" belted magnums.

Ammo is not common for the .300 H&H in the US, but is available. Recoil of the .30 caliber magnums is all pretty close to the same, with the fit of the rifle (and its weight) being more important for moderating recoil than the actual cartridge (.300 H&H, .308 Norma, .300 Winchester, .300 Weatherby). They all kick quite a bit, and are very loud, because they all burn around 70 or more grains of powder.

Unless you have a good dependable source for .300 H&H ammo, and/or can get it a lower cost, there is not any real benefit to choosing this fine old round over newer ones in the same power class. Accuracy will be up to the individual rifle, not the cartridge design. The 1,000 yard Wimbeldon Cup match was won by a .300 H&H in 1935, and the superior long range performance over contemporary rounds gave the H&H an advantage for several years, but it has long been replaced by others for long range target shooting. It has proven istelf as a fine performer on game, at any range they can humanely be taken, and is at its best overall with a good 150gr or 180gr bullet, depending on the game to be taken.
 

Jimro

New member
This statement is not accurate. Although the .300 H&H was also known as Holland's Super .30, there is no "older .30-06" loading duplicated by it, it infact outperforms the modern .30-06 loadings by a significant margin. The original .30-06 loading was the GI ball, either a 173gr @ 2640 +/-30fps or a 150gr @ 2740 +/-30fps. The .300 H&H shoots the 150 @ 3190fps and the 180gr @ 2920fps (given slight variation for indiviual rifles and barrel lengths).

Sorry I wasn't perfectly clear, Kynoch offered the 300 H&H launching a 180 grain pill at 2,700 fps, the same as a 30-06. Kynoch also offered a 220 grain pill at 2,350 fps. These loads are representative of what was originally offered in 1925. By the 1960's the ballistics you listed had become common by American manufacturers, who had more modern powders to work with and were right in the middle of the "velocity is king" wave of magnumitis brought about by Roy Weatherby.

http://www.new-kynoch.apt-sites.com/cartridge range.htm#

Like I mentioned before, it wasn't uncommon in to up the velocity of a cartridge as new powders made higher velocities possible.

Jimro
 

lt dan

New member
i know this thread is old but i started it and i cut my teeth 2 years ago with this thread and the firing line was the first forum i belonged to. so it is only right that i report back on the topic of this thread and the big new is that i received my 300H&H custom built on Friday and i am impressed
 

handlerer2

New member
I have a good friend from S.Africa, and his families choice is the 300H&H. It is far from dead over there. They don't have the tradition of using American service cartridges. He had pictures of game, Eland, Kudu ect taken with one shot from a 300H&H. Joel, considered this round superior to other 300 mags, because of it's superior accuracy potential over the 300WM, they reloaded and the longer case neck served to function to insure better bullet bore concentricity. By the way the H&H mag brass is far from obsolete. It is the basis for the 300WM, 7mags, 264 mag, all the Weatherby mags except the 378 family. I have and do reload for 300WM, 300WBY, 340 WBY. All will do the job, but the Weatherby's give more consistent accuracy from commercial actions in my experience. I haven't hunted in Africa yet, but my girlfreinds neighbor owns a safari lodge in Tanzania, so I'm hoping to get a chance to warm up my WBY's there soon.
 

taylorce1

New member
It dan, sounds like you have a great rifle! It took me almost three years for my .300 H&H to come together. I think I'll take it on this years elk and mule deer hunt so I'm hoping to have some pictures with it this fall. The only problem is that the rifle is a little heavy compared to what I normally like to hunt with.
 

taylorce1

New member
It dan, very nice rifle pics, love the WH mount in the background. Which Vortex scope are you using and how do you like it? I've been thinking of giving the Vortex a try, just hard to break away from my Leupies.

As far as my 150 grain load I didn't run any of them over a chronograph. So I can't tell you how fast they are running. I'm not planning on using any bullets that light in my .300 H&H again, I'm planning on sticking to 180's or heavier.
 

lt dan

New member
talorce1, thanks. i use the Vortex viper 6.5-2-x50. now since i got the rifle last Friday i have taken it to the range twice and went hunting twice. so my experience with this scope is limited. but so far i am impressed. in the end it was between the vortex and a leupold. two things made me decide in favour of the vortex. 1- in s-africa both scopes have a lifelong guarantee,but if you have trouble with the leopold the dealer has to return it to the USA for repairs. the vortex gets exchanged localy by the importer, which by the way is the same importer as Swarovski. the second reason is that there was simply no leupold available with the same specs as the vortex at that time. the vortex is rather new(ish) over here but so far i have only heard good things and all the gun shops recommend them. i guess time will tell.

i too think i will stay with 180grn. the 300H&H has a huge following over here and the die hard believers tend to go for 200grn and 225grn bullets.

i asked for the rifle to be heavy with a heavy barrel(26"), for long distance shooting. the rifle weighs 12.2 pounds. for long distance hunting on plains game i think the 180grn will be king.

i must say i do like your rifle's look. it looks purpose built,its intentions are clear.
 

lt dan

New member
http://jaracal.com/index.php?topic=7529.msg105333#msg105333


and to think people thought i was joking when i started this thread, as a virgin poster in 2008.

this is when you need a 300H&H, the sa-africans dont often post their acomplishmants, but every now and then what they can do needs to put into perspective.

as an African hunter it is rather amusing to see that non African White hunters are seen as the so called pro's on African Hunting.

i grew up with the names of at least 20 well known white hunters who culled at least 1000 Elephant per hunter. strangely enough if I search the web about well known hunters people like Craig B, and Selby and the likes tend to apear.

why are African Hunters playing second fidle to other lesser experianced hunters, simply becuse the lesser hunters are well known by a well respected hunting comunity:(n-american hunters and and more commonly, european hunters). even though local hunters see American and the more common European hunters as depandant hunters(when they visit Africa), Still the local hunters respect the abilities of the noted foreighn hunters.



why am i saying this, it seems so counter productive? it is becuase Foreighn hunters are told the ultimate hunt is African game with big fast magnum calibres. this is simply not true, take a 30-06 or a 300H&H that easily outperformes a 300wm and come and hunt Africa. Having said that a 308 or 270 would do the trick just as fine. so much for the "tough" African plains game.

so what is my point? 1: Americans are not the only people that hunt, far from it. 2 stop the propaganda that African game are so much tougher, than N-American or European game that you need Magnums. come and hunt the dark Continant, if you are a good N-aMERICAN HUNTER why wouldnt you be a good African Hunter?
 
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Bart B.

New member
Dan, your last post was right on the money. Very good information.

There's been some misinformation posted about the .300 H&H vs. .300 Win. Mag. I'd like to comment on. In an earlier post, the following was stated by wjkuleck:
In reality, the SAAMI pressure limit for the H&H has been set signficantly lower than the limit for the Win, which is perhaps why, with equal barrel lengths & rifle weights, the Win might be perceived it's kicking more. The Win bullet is leaving the muzzle with more energy than the H&H bullet.
Accorcing to SAAMI documents available online, the max average pressure of both cartridges is 54,000 CUP. And muzzle velocity from the Win. Mag.'s only 50 to 100 fps greater than the H&H version; not enough to be meaningful afield.
 

lt dan

New member
Bart B, so true!!! seemas that you invest your time in meaningfull comperesons!

the reasoning behind my last statemant seems to be lost in translation!

I have been confrontentant by foreighn hunters, that are told by salesman that magnum calibres are the answer to African game. For some reason or the other , salesman tell potential American and eropean hunters that African game a are so much tougher than other(n_american) game. this to my respect/knowledge is simply not true.

I have asked this question many times as a local African hunter: why if you are an acomplished (n-american/european hunter) would you be a lesser African hunter?. the answer is: what you believe has been told to you by the media/salesman/magezines/huntersforums!!!!

there is no african plains game that cant be taken with the well respectible 30-06 or the 7x64 or the 8x68, or even the 270win.

i will stand and fall with this sentimant, that all you realy need to hunt African plains game is a 30-06. this from a hunter that soley believes in the power of the old 300H&H.

p.s if you cant get hold of a 300H&H, a 300wm is the second best thing. alllthough it is 40 years younger.:D

took my 300mag for a spin 14 days ago, i did the worst of all the harvesters, i took 26 blue wilde beast headshots, from 30 shots. i had to pay and take home the ekstra 4. i swear the next time i will do better!!!! yet, the meat wasnt all that bad!!!

we did a couple of cull hunts, in 2011. we will repeat this in 2012, if someone wants to partisipate? No mounts nor meat, but as allways pleanty of pics and stories. such as the past seasons. from te 10 foreign vacancies we still have 3 spots to fill.
 

Tim R

New member
I came into a pre 64 mdl 70 in 300 H7H a couple of years ago thanks to my father in law when he passed. The first time I shot this rifle I was pleased with the lack of recoil compaired to the 300 WM. I think it's the case design with the long slightly tapered shoulder.
 

taylorce1

New member
Dan,

I shot my mule deer and was hoping to take an elk with it this year using the .300 H&H and the 180 grain Nosler Partition. My bullet speed is nothing to brag about out of this old rilfe as I was only making about 2650 fps at the muzzle. Didn't matter though as I got to within about a 125 yards and my shot stoned the deer dead.

I'm going to go back and work with some more load development as I know I should be able to get better speed and still retain accuracy with the bullet. I've talked with a few people who reload a lot of magnum cartridges and they say to try seating my bullets deeper and jump more to the lands. I guess I'll give it a try as my .30-06 is faster and more accurate with 180 grain bullets while burning less powder than my H&H. If I can't get this to improve I'll either sell the rifle off or re-barrel.

My deer

PB110007.jpg

PB110005.jpg


I wish I had the opportunity to use the rifle like you do in SA, but unfortunately I'm unable to legally take as much game in a year as you are able.
 

lt dan

New member
WOW, Tailorce 1, that is some beautiful photo's of a fine animal.

2650f/s seems a bit slow. seems from your post that you suspect your barrel life/ or lack there of. i know that you guys have much better powder than what we have, so getting better velocitys than that should be easy.

like i said I get 3084f/s out of my H&H with 180gr Nosler acubond. i hope you get the rifle's magic load.

p.s the link I posted wasnt one of my culls,but like i said, there is till available spots for any hunter that is intrested.
 
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