300h&h

[lt dan]

can someone give me feedback on hunting with a 300h&h. over here in africa this rifle has a very good name. the problem is that no company produce these rifles. if i want one i can have it custom build. the reason why i am opting for this rifle and not the 300wm, is that we often harvest 30 animals per hunter a day. the 300wm therefore tends to kick both your eyes into one socket after the third shot. most of my hunting is done on open savanahs, but every now and then i hunt kudu or eland. so i cant go smaler than .30.
i shoot with 180grn and i see between these 2(h&h and wm) the 300h&h is a little faster than the wm. i thougt it to be the other way around. is it because the h&h`s barrel is 2inch. longer? the wm ammo is also more available than the h&h, but we do have a company that produce 300h&h.

 

[Vermont]

Sorry I can't answer your question, but why are you shooting 30 animals per day? Are you feeding an entire town?

 

[wjkuleck]

The 300 Holland & Holland Magnum has only about 5% more case capacity than the 300 Winchester Magnum, thus the performance advantage with the same bullets and barrel lengths should be minimal. In reality, the SAAMI pressure limit for the H&H has been set signficantly lower than the limit for the Win, which is perhaps why, with equal barrel lengths & rifle weights, the Win might be perceived it's kicking more. The Win bullet is leaving the muzzle with more energy than the H&H bullet.

I reckon that the .300 H&H is not so popular with rifle manufacturers because its 72 mm case argues for a "long" or "Magnum" action. Compared to the .300 Win Mag, that extra cost & weight for a long action buys you nothing, really. Both the case and the rifles for it have been at least obsolescent if not downright obsolete for years.

Certainly the choice of weapons is yours, but for harvesting the Win might make more sense, particularly given relative ammunition costs (at least here in the USA!) and rifle availability.

Regards,

Walt

 

[TheShootist1894]

As you stated the 300 H&H is a little bit better then the Win Mag, but just by a smidgen. However, at 30 animals a day one thing to consider is that you are going to burn that barrel up beyond all recall. Given the fact that the 300 H&H already has a tendency to be hot, that amount will not help matters. So, do you really want to pay for a custom rifle that you will have to rebarrel or repurchase in a year or two? Just a thought...call me the devil's advocate I guess.

I do agree with you though that the 300 H&H does pretty much spank the crap out of most 30 cals. It is a good round and would make for an excellent African game rifle. However, I think you would be better suited to get the larger and just as tame 375 H&H. The guns are readily available, the barrel bun not near as bad and it will put down anything that comes your way. As for recoil, the 1917 Sporter that I had did about the same as a common 30-06 Springfield.

F-C

 

[Scorch]

With that much shooting, and the need for a 30-caliber minimum, have you considered a338 WinMag? They are bearable to shoot, and pack plenty of power for the larger game, yet are not destructive on lighter game.

 

[lt dan]

thanks for the feedback. i am gratefull that all of you took the time to help me.

the 375 is the king and also very few meat damage. the problem is that when harvesting in the day most of the shots are taken between 210m and 250m. that may be a problem for the big 375.what i do like is the way a 375h&h puts a vlakvark(warthog) down. it seems uncompromising.

most(85%) harvesting shots are taken at night with ranges not much futher than 150m. most of the times it would be at 80m. then we use 223,243, 222-50, 264 and even 270. so not all shots are taken with one rifle.

to aswer the question. we dont feed a town. the most animals harvested in one hunt that i partook was 119. though i do not do this for a living i know of far greater numbers than this. keep in mind that this is done on game breeding farms. by lack of a better comparisson this would be the same as a cattle ranch in texas. thus this meat is eventually available in supermarkets and local butcheries. only certain species can be harvested as per legislation
and this is often inspected by the department of conservation. on a harvesting day there would normally be between 5 and 12 harvesters(hunters).local hunters seldom see the need for trophy hunting and would rather opt for a clean shot(head /vitals) so that they have maximum to eat. however on a harvest all shots must be in the head. anything else is for your own account.

but sometimes we need to take the game at day time over long distances and you also get reqeusts for meat of bigger game( this can not be seen harvesting as you would only shoot one or two of the bigger buck on a day) therefore i need .30 with long range. so the qeustion remains h&h or wm?

ps: i hear the 338 is extremely capable but kicks like a wildebeast

 

[Full-choke]

So this changes things...

Okay, given the fact that not all the shots are taken with one rifle that changes things. Also, the long-range factor adds in as well.

To change my verdict of the 375 H&H, I would say that I would look at one of three areas. The 300 H&H, the 7mm Weatherby Magnum and the 30-378 Weatherby Magnum. The 300 H&H and 30-378 would probably go almost head to head for accurate distance shooting as far as holding knock down power. I think they would be about equal in recoil as well but I'm not sure on that (someone might know better on that one). The 7mm Weatherby might be more factory available even though it might not meet all the needs.

The other thought is what about getting a 300 Win Mag with a compensator on it. It is going to make it considerably louder, but it will make it more accurate and recoil is probably less then the 30-06 at that point.

If it were me I would go with either the 30-378 or a 300 Win Mag comped...

F-C

 

[CraigC]

Sounds like my kind of job!!!

 

[tyrajam]

For selectively hunting for meat, why the magnum power? If the farthest shot you are going to take is 250 meters as you say, I would go with the old 30-06. A good bonded 180 grain bullet will give you straight line penetration through the biggest antelopes or even kudu. Hornady's new 30-06 high energy loading gives 2880fps with a 180gr nosler partition, the exact same velocity as the 300H&H 180 partition.

At 400 yards you will get less drop with the mag, but penetration and killing power is more an issue of bullet construction than velocity. I would use a 30-06, and if you need more power than that, go up to the 375 mag.

 

[lt dan]

the 30-06 is the most popular hunting rifle. i cant remember the last hunt(not harvest) i have been on that did not have a 30-06 among the hunters. the 7mm and the other .30 mentioned are scarce over here.

nobody seems to have a real problem with me buying a 300h&h. i am driving to the city were i will order whatever i finally decide. if it is not the 300h&h it will be 375h&h or the 300wm.

i am realy impressed with this website as well as the excellent advice. i will tell my fellow hunters about the site on thursday as we are going warthog and blacback jackal hunting. by the way i do this with a .308win. if we get something i will take some photos and try and post it. unfortunatly the tusks(i dont know if this is the right english word for a pigs visible teeth) of the warthogs in our region are not that big due to the harder than normal upper soil. when they look for roots they use their protruding teeth. but the rest of their frame is just as big as pigs from other regions. as soon as the sun sets this hunt will turn into a jackaul hunt. i am sure that this site will soon have alot more african hunters asking for the memebers advice.

i will allso give feedback on what i finally decided. thanks again

 

[CraigC]

How is your ammo availability? I know the stuff doesn't exactly grow on trees and is much more expensive than it is here.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I've never been a huge 30 caliber fan ( though I have several 30 Carbines, a 30-30, a few .308's & a couple 30-06's )... I guess I do love those old African cartridges though... IMO... there is lots to be said for large low pressure cartridges in the extreme heat... I've been kind of suprised by the 458 Win Mag following over there, because of the pressures of the cartridge, & the extreme heat possible... & why I'm not a big fan of the Weatherby Magnums for tropical use

even though the ranges are longer, I wouldn't feel undergunned with a small battery of rifles consisting of a 6.5 mm Mauser or 7 mm Mauser... to take care of the smaller bore work, & a 375 H&H would take care of all your medium bore work, with light bullets, the range is good on medium sized game, & heavier bullets for anything larger, with a 416 Rigby for really big & or dangerous game... likely from the sounds of it, the 6.5 or 7 would do for most of your shooting...

 

[jsr76]

I have owned the .300 WM. it was very powerful and accurate. Very accurate. I handload everything myself. I have also read many times that the .300 H&H is VERY accurate and when HANDLOADED it will slightly better the WM . I don't think the difference in power of these two is enough to spit at and they will surely both kill very well. The biggest factor as far as I can see is this. Do you reload? If so, buy what you want. If not, buy what is most common. You can't lose with either shell. The H&H is basically gone here in the great U.S.A. but if I found a nice one, I'd buy it for sure just to have an ULTRA classic. The original .300 magnum.

 

[Slamfire]

I would bet that if you were to bring this question up on the AccurateReloading forum, you would get a lot of responses from people who like the 300 H&H.

The 300 H&H has not been used as a serious target round for decades. I asked one of the oldest shooters in the gun club why, and he said case head separations. I do not know if you are allowed to reload, but the 300 H&H has a very shallow shoulder. The case also starts off as a belted magnum which means the case headspaces on the belt. It is a very common compliant of owners of belted magnums that case life is limited. And that is because they are unfamiliar about the peculiarities with these cases and lack the special gages to properly measure shoulder set back. Most of them are setting the shoulder back too much. This is happening because the shoulder distance is not standardized, as with rimless cases, so the shoulder distances used by die manufactures and the chamber reamers are totally random.

Though there are some who love the 300 H&H, the cartridge and rifles in that cartridge are scare. As said before, the 300 WM is far more popular. I would expect brass for the WM would be a lot easier to find than the 300 H&H.

I would say, if a 30-06 is not enough, and a 300 Win Mag is too much, why not go to a 9.3 X62 mm or a 35 Whelen?. I am more familiar with the 35 Whelen, it shoots a 250 grain bullet at 2500 fps and has a very good reputation within the distances you are shooting. It is basically a 30-06 blown out to 35 caliber. The 9.3 round seems to be very well known with the Europeans, and well liked. Not very well known in the states and I have never seen one. However the differences between it and the 35 Whelen are small.

 

[Tim R]

It's been a long time since I've shot a 300 WM but I do know there is some recoil involved. I'm not normally sensitive to recoil as my favorite hunting rifle is a Win 30-06 Feather Weight and it boots like a mule. I must admit I don't shoot it a lot at the range because after about 10 shots, my shoulder is done.

I also have a pre-64 Win Mdl. 70 in 300 H&H which came to me when my father-in-law passed away. I have the dies but I am still shooting his ammo and brass seems to some what hard to find. The rifle by the way has little blue wear and has never had a scope mounted on it.

I found the 300 H&H with 180 gr bullets has less recoil than I remember with the 300 WM and I believe it has something to do with the case design. Both are good shooting cartridges and both have been used in 1000 yard matches with wins.

Looking at my reloading manual, the 300 H&H with it's 2 inch longer barrel shows slightly better speed with a 180 gr. bullet but not so much the animal would ever know with less than 100 FPS difference. The 300 H&H does this with less powder which I don't believe the 2 inch longer barrel accounts 100% for.

300 H&H rifles are hard to find here in the US. Finding a mag. action could also be hard to find. If it were me, I would get the 300 WM and and a long eye relief scope and have at it. If you really want to knock your eye balls out try a 300 RUM.

 

[Jimro]

The 300 H&H or 300 Super as it is also known, was a low pressure round. It was developed to duplicate the ballistics of the older 30-06, but at lower pressure for reliability.

Since then pressure standards have changed (much like happened to the 9.3x62), so that the 300 H&H is much more on par with the 300 Win Mag than the old -06.

PMP has 1 load for the 300 H&H, 2 loads for the 300 Win Mag, and 4 for the 30-06. Seems to me that any of these will do the job, head shots out to around 250 meters. Find the rifle that fits you best and don't look back.

Jimro

 

[lt dan]

the members of this site dump a lot of usefull info on me, it is fantastic. it is true that pmp produces 300h&h ammo. this a local company and i hear that american hunters are fond of their products? it seems more and more that it will be the 300h&h.

 

[TheShootist1894]

After reading through things this morning I don't see how you could go wrong with either the Win Mag or the 300 H&H. If you are afraid of the recoil just get it compensated. The rifle will be EXTREMELY loud but also EXXTREMELY accurate at that point.

I don't know much about PMP, I have never used their stuff so I won't testify for it. I know with my buddies 300 Win Mag that we shot Federal ammo and it was affordable and accurate. You would just have to look at what good hunting loads you could get to serve your purpose.

Either way, if you get a 300 H&H please post pictures of the rifle. It's not everyday you stumble across one here in the US and it has been one of my favorite 30 cals of all time.

F-C

 

[Savage99]

It Dan,

Forget the 300 H&H as its dead commercially. On top of that there is not going to be any difference in recoil worth mentioning between it and the 300 WM.

If recoil is a problem then use the 30-06. Also make sure that the rifle has a good recoil pad. I like the Decelerator pads the best.

 

[lt dan]

i have returned from the gunsmith. the 300h&h is being build. i will post photos of this rifle as soon as i receive it. this unfortunatly means i will get it only in june. this is june 2009!. due to local legislation i have written a couple of exams and practical tests. now with the blessing of local police, i can put in a reqeust for this rifle, due to the fact that they questioned me a lot and made an inspection on my rifle safe. i hired a atorney to handle my aplication. i now have my eye on a 250-3000(250 savage) belonging to my father -in- law. however if i want this rifle i must be a "dedicated hunter" ie more exams and more questions by the police. i know this rifle is of usa company. i want to use this rifle as a varmint gun, any sugestions?. my father-in-law's father got this rifle from a british hunter whos scouts favoured this calibre when walking point when tracking a wounded animal. o yes, we went warthog hunting ,saw some 350m+. but some one did shoot a k**u!