300 blackout for hunting?

[taylorce1]

A 110gr round from a 9" barrel is putting out 679 ft/lbs at 200yds. That's on the weak side of your traditional deer hunting cartridges; but it will get it done.

That's better than .357 Magnum level muzzle energy. I wonder how many deer have fallen to handgun hunters with that cartridge? I used to put a lot of stock in energy as a direct correlation to killing efficiency, not so much anymore. I'm not saying you don't need energy to be effective, but IMO it isn't as important as some people think.

 

[random guy]

From a 7.5" barrel:

110 gr. Hornady V-Max, 20.0 H110, Lee factory crimp
2015
2001
2029
2014
2004
2013 FPS average
990 FPE
SD- 11 FPS

Still not my choice for hunting. 300BLK gives me full AR mag capacity and very good short barrel performance, neither of which means much for hunting deer.

 

[ShootistPRS]

I've taken just two deer with my 6" 357 but both shots were inside 50 yards.
Inside of 100 yards the 300BO should be effective on deer. I would recommend the 300 AAC to any hunter that could shoot a group no more than 2" at 100 yards. i would definitely NOT recommend its use at 200 yards on deer. Maybe on coyotes at that range would be agreeable to me.

Bartholomew Roberts Wrote: A 110gr round from a 9" barrel is putting out 679 ft/lbs at 200yds. That's on the weak side of your traditional deer hunting cartridges; but it will get it done.

I believe someone is overly optimistic of the velocity and/or the ballistic coefficient of the 300BO bullet. If I reversed the process correctly you need a muzzle velocity of 2213 fps to get that energy at 200 yards. A 16" barrel only produces a maximum of 2400 fps with a 110 grain bullet. I would think that with 7" off that barrel length you would lose more than 200 fps at the muzzle. I could be wrong, it has happened in the past.
Even so I would question the ability of a 110 grain bullet to penetrate the 12 to 14 inches necessary for a clean kill.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

ShootistPRS - a velocity of about 2200fps is very typical for both the 110gr Barnes TSX and the 110 VMAX out of my 9" barrel (measured with a Magnetospeed chrony). The slowest speed I've got in my log book is 2152fps for the Barnes - and I'm talking factory ammo, not handloads. Ballistic coefficient is .289 per Barnes.

One of the great things about .300 is really good short barrel performance.

As for penetration: the Barnes 110gr TSX did 14" of ballistics gel and 6" of water after that from an 8" barrel in this test (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MvanIrJSpYU). It is actually kind of counterintuitive; but with less velocity, the round opens up slower and gets more penetration than the same round out of a 16" barrel at about ten feet.

 

[ShootistPRS]

Have you got a video of what that round does at 200 yards?
That would tell the likely effectiveness of the round at that range.

 

[stagpanther]

ShootistPRS - a velocity of about 2200fps is very typical for both the 110gr Barnes TSX and the 110 VMAX out of my 9" barrel (measured with a Magnetospeed chrony). The slowest speed I've got in my log book is 2152fps for the Barnes - and I'm talking factory ammo, not handloads. Ballistic coefficient is .289 per Barnes.

One of the great things about .300 is really good short barrel performance.

As for penetration: the Barnes 110gr TSX did 14" of ballistics gel and 6" of water after that from an 8" barrel in this test (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MvanIrJSpYU). It is actually kind of counterintuitive; but with less velocity, the round opens up slower and gets more penetration than the same round out of a 16" barrel at about ten feet.

The 110 Tac 300acc TX is my bullet of choice--it starts opening at a lower velocity than the TSX; and is optimized expressly for the 300BO--best shooting bullet out of my 300BO pistol.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I may be the only .300 BLK shooter who doesn't have a Youtube video of me shooting something with the round if Google is any guide. You can probably find something if you are curious. The .300 version of the TSX is designed to expand at speeds as low as 1300fps - which even out of a 9" barrel means you've got plenty of cushion at 200yds.

 

[stagpanther]

I may be the only .300 BLK shooter who doesn't have a Youtube video of me shooting something with the round if Google is any guide. You can probably find something if you are curious. The .300 version of the TSX is designed to expand at speeds as low as 1300fps - which even out of a 9" barrel means you've got plenty of cushion at 200yds.

I've reloaded and shot both a lot out of my pistol--and they are both great. I admittedly have no experience taking game with either one--but the Tac TX (there's yet another blue tipped TAC TX which is not the same thing as the black-tipped 300 acc optimized one) is a bit closer to a flat-base design while having an optimized length for the length of the cartridge--translated; it gives you a nice pointy design while not encroaching on case capacity as much as a spitzer/boat tail.

 

[taylorce1]

I've taken just two deer with my 6" 357 but both shots were inside 50 yards. Inside of 100 yards the 300BO should be effective on deer. I would recommend the 300 AAC to any hunter that could shoot a group no more than 2" at 100 yards. i would definitely NOT recommend its use at 200 yards on deer. Maybe on coyotes at that range would be agreeable to me.

How effective was your .357 Mag at that range? You were probably down in the 400-500 ft-lb range with those shots. Inside 100 yards the .300 BLK 110 grain bullet has more energy than a .44 Mag at the muzzle.

So what is your main complaint about the .300 BLK and why you feel it is ineffective past 100 yards? Is it lack of velocity, energy, bullet diameter, or a combination above? If you're going to set personal limits on a cartridge, can you give your reasons behind it?

I know I was the first person to say I'd use it to 300 yards and beyond. My reasoning behind that is I've killed some game (pronghorn & white tail) at 300 yards plus with a 6mm cartridge that only has 700 ft-lbs of energy at 300 yards with a 70 grain bullet. I've also allowed my daughter to do quite a bit of white tail hunting in Oklahoma with the .223 Rem with 55 grain bullets out to 200 yards. So that's my reasoning why I'd use the .300 BLK to 300 + yards, of course shot presentation will pay a big role if I decide to pull the trigger at those ranges as well.

 

[ShootistPRS]

Taylor,
The 140 grain bullet leaves the barrel at 1464 fps and at 50 yards it is still above 500 foot pounds of energy. More importantly it will penetrate just over 2 feet in my Fackler box (25 - 26"). One deer was shot through both lungs and the other was shot in the head. Both bullets fully penetrated and exited the deer.

I have no complaint with the 300 BO. I am just aware that it is less potent than the 7.62x39 which is less potent than the 30-30.
Since all three rounds are basically the same caliber and the 300 is the wimpiest I just point out that the 30-30 has always been considered a 150 yard gun. Magically the 300 BO is transformed into a cartridge with twice the range of the more potent 30-30. There seems to be a contradiction there.

Would you use a 30-30 beyond 300 yards?

 

[agtman]

Don't try to make a .300BLK AR into a .308/7.62 AR.

The .308 ARs are very effective hunters, but as a platform they're also larger and heavier.

However, if that's the power level and range you want ballistically, then you want something similar to this backwoods bad-boy.

Zero it for 200-yds and call it good. It'll put the *spank* on the hog's pank.

16" 7.62 LMT MRP.


Famous hog kill with a .308 AR:

 

[SFW]

The largest deer I have ever taken was at 230 yards with a 5.56. I had good shot placement and it was DRT. I plan to hunt my 300 BLK this year at one of my properties. However, my shots will be under 75 yards. Bring enough gun for the hunt you have planned. When I hunt over 100 yards, I will be bringing my .270- as I feel it is better suited for the task. Be ethical and responsible. We are stewards of this land.

Now for hogs... it'a 300 BLK all the way. I just want them gone. lol!

 

[agtman]

Now for hogs... it'a 300 BLK all the way. I just want them gone.

What barrel length? And what distance are you taking the hoggies at?

 

[stagpanther]

agt--I've seen some big hogs--but I don't think I've ever seen one even half that big! lol

 

[rickyrick]

I can't figure out why anyone would want to walk over 300 yards to look at a dead hog with a bullet hole in it.

But hey, some people hunt long range some people stick them with a knife. You can kill them with just about anything.
If you have a special rig to hunt pigs, that's cool we all do; but the special rig is for the hunters feelings and ego, and not about the pig.

The pig doesn't care if his lungs are perforated with a 308, or if his eyes are dangling out because he was shot in the neck with a 223.

Hunt within the limits of your weapon.

 

[SFW]

What barrel length? And what distance are you taking the hoggies at?

16" barrel. I only shoot supersonics. Mainly the Barnes 110s. Most of my encounters have been between 25 and 80 yards. As far as the Q beam will throw.

 

[taylorce1]

Taylor,
The 140 grain bullet leaves the barrel at 1464 fps and at 50 yards it is still above 500 foot pounds of energy.

ShootistPRS thanks for your response, I've been busy or else I'd have been back sooner. Yes at that speed you have more than 500 ft-lbs, but again there is no hard and fast rule as to what energy is required to kill a deer. Then there is still the fact many .300 BLK rounds have more energy at 300 yards than your .357 Mag at the muzzle.

Would you use a 30-30 beyond 300 yards?

Absolutely, I would use the .30-30 beyond 300 yards. However, it would have to be the right rifle like a Win M54, Rem 788, TC Encore. The real limiting factor to the .30-30 is the rifles that it is chambered in. Lever action rifles that don't lend themselves to mounting a scopes (M94's and their clones), crude buckhorn sights, and bad triggers limit the range of the .30-30 far more than the cartridge. Most people simply don't have a .30-30 rifle capable of shooting well enough to be a 300 yard cartridge.

The 7.62X39 has similar rifle issues that the .30-30 does. Trying to have an effective 300 yard deer rifle with an SKS is a lot harder than a 7.62X39 in a quality bolt action or AR. Then there is a lot of cheap ammo that people use in the X39 that doesn't lend itself well to 300 yard deer hunting.

The .300 BLK has always been offered in better platforms for 300 yard plus shots. Being able to place a shot accurately when it is time to pull the trigger, is the most important thing when it comes to hunting successfully with a firearm. I'll take an accurate rifle over cartridge HP any day, and that's the determining factor as to how far I'll shoot when hunting.

 

[ShootistPRS]

Taylor,
There are a couple of issues at hand when talking about the maximum range a cartridge can be used in a hunting situation.
1. Maximum point blank range. This is the maximum range the cartridge will shoot without rising or dropping more than 1/2 your target size. If the kill zone on a whitetail is 6" then the maximum point blank range is that range the bullet remains within 3 inches of the line of sight. To take advantage of this you need a range finder to be sure of your distance. You can by-pass this "maximum" if you have a good range finder and dope on your rifle out to whatever range you feel is maximum. This works as long as you can shoot groups smaller than your target at that range in the field.

Optimum game weight. This is the range that a given bullet weight and caliber can be expected to make a clean, one shot, kill when delivered to the vitals. Basically defined as a heart/lung shot with the animal positioned quartering away or towards the shooter. You can by-pass this limit if you can shoot well enough to place your shot in the head or neck to take out the central nervous system. This kind of shot is better with a lighter faster expanding bullet that will do its maximum expansion in the small area to be hit.

Bullet energy: The energy of a bullet really means very little when it comes to killing an animal. The amount of energy converted to damage is what counts. You can see this by taking it to the extremes. A 1mm bullet that weighs 5 grains shot at a high enough velocity can have the same energy as a 50 caliber bullet weighing 500 grains at 1000 fps. Which one will kill a deer faster? What is necessary, whether you shoot to the vitals or head and neck shots is to have a bullet that expands at the right time with enough velocity to deliver enough damage to do what is necessary to kill the target. As long as the damage is done then what happens after that is more or less inconsequential. A shot that goes through helps with a blood trail if it is necessary but if the bullet does its job you won't need to track an animal.

All of these play a role in bringing a quick kill and none of them is absolute. The shooter has to be able to hit the vitals under the conditions of the shot. That means that the gun and cartridge have to perform as well as the shooter. The bullet has to be up to the task at impact velocities. As long as those parameters are met you have an adequate hunting round.

 

[eastbank]

a friend and i croned a load of little gun and a 110gr V-max in a bolt rifle, speed 2430 fps and a 130gr speer HP with H-110 in a bolt gun,speed 2066fps. both rifles with 16.5" barrels. looks like little gun is the speed demon for the 110v-max. we both have shot deer with these loads, eastbank.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

OK, ShooterPRS - evaluating it using the criteria you laid out. Assuming a 9" barrel AR15 style rifle zeroed at 85yds, a Barnes TAC-TX will be within 3" of the point of aim out to 200yds.

It will be above the minimum velocity (1300fps) for expansion out to 375yds. It will be above 500 ft/lbs out to 300yds. So, that's an all copper, expanding 110gr bullet that penetrates 14"+ of ballistics gel at the muzzle.

Is anyone still skeptical that you can kill a deer with that at 200yds without any special talent?