30 USA or 30-40 Krag
- Thread starter Roamin_Wade
- Start date
And don't ya'll be fergettin' that you can 'make' 30-40K brass from .303 British brass. Just resize the Brit cases in a 30-40 FL resizing die.
The Brit case actually has a longer neck than the 30-40, so it allows for more amount of surface 'purchase' on the seated bullet as well as for crimping with a Lee factory crimp die.
'Course, the headstamp on the case will still say, '303 Brit,' not '30 Army' or '30 USG' or '30-40K,' but if finding 30-40 cases in your area tends to be difficult, the Brit brass works fine.
The Brit case actually has a longer neck than the 30-40, so it allows for more amount of surface 'purchase' on the seated bullet as well as for crimping with a Lee factory crimp die.
'Course, the headstamp on the case will still say, '303 Brit,' not '30 Army' or '30 USG' or '30-40K,' but if finding 30-40 cases in your area tends to be difficult, the Brit brass works fine.
Mike Irwin
Staff
The .30-40 case is slightly longer than the .303 British case.
.303 - 2.222
.30-40 - 2.314
That means that .30-40 cases made from the .303 British case will have a slightly shorter neck.
That shouldn't be an issue, but could cause issues with excessive bullet jump into the rifling, leading to degraded accuracy.
.303 - 2.222
.30-40 - 2.314
That means that .30-40 cases made from the .303 British case will have a slightly shorter neck.
That shouldn't be an issue, but could cause issues with excessive bullet jump into the rifling, leading to degraded accuracy.
Roamin_Wade
Moderator
To all the folks that are saying that the 30 US is what I've got, that's not correct. It says "30 USA" that's different. I'm wondering if this was foreign made or something like that. Does anyone's reference material say anything about it being called a 30 USA specifically?
QUOTE] To all the folks that are saying that the 30 US is what I've got, that's not correct. It says "30 USA" that's different. [/QUOTE]
Yes, i have some REM-UMC rounds clearly marked 30 USA.
i'm an ammunition collector who gave it up years ago. Cartridges Of The World should taken with a grain of salt. Every edition i've seen contains errors.
Example: The 8th Addition, Revised and Expanded shows a rimmed cartridge clearly marked .30 U. S. Army discussed under the heading of 30-03 Springfield/30-03 Government.
Yes, i have some REM-UMC rounds clearly marked 30 USA.
i'm an ammunition collector who gave it up years ago. Cartridges Of The World should taken with a grain of salt. Every edition i've seen contains errors.
Example: The 8th Addition, Revised and Expanded shows a rimmed cartridge clearly marked .30 U. S. Army discussed under the heading of 30-03 Springfield/30-03 Government.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"To all the folks that are saying that the 30 US is what I've got, that's not correct. It says "30 USA" that's different. I'm wondering if this was foreign made or something like that. Does anyone's reference material say anything about it being called a 30 USA specifically?"
Roamin, please go back and read my posts. I've answered your question.
Your cartridge is a .30-40 Krag manufactured in the United States by Remington-UMC.
.30 USA was a standard headstamp used by Remington for the .30-40 Krag for many years.
Your round was made the Remington-UMC ammunition plant in Bridgeport, Connecticut.
Union Metallic Cartridge Company was established in Bridgeport in 1867 and manufactured there until 1912, when Remington took controlling interest in the company.
After 1912 and until 1970, REM-UMC headstamped ammunition was manufactured in the exact same plant in Bridgeport.
I posted at least one picture of one with the exact same headstamp.
As others have said, Cartridges of the World is a nice introductory survey, but it is not authoritative.
It is riddled with errors (most minor, some really -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-?!!!?) in all editions.
When you are dealing with old cartridges you MUST keep one very important point in mind -- headstamps are FLUID. Not every manufacturer used the same designation for the same round, and identifying headstamps can change over the years.
Over the years I have seen the following commercial headstamps on .30-40 Krag cartridges:
.30 USA
.30 US Army
.30 Army
.30-40
.30-40 Krag
.30 Krag
.30 USG
.30 US Gov.
ALL of those headstamps, and very likely more, have been used by companies over the years to identify the SAME cartridge -- the .30-40 Krag.
Simply put, you have a common, run of the mill cartridge with a common, run of the mill headstamp that Remington stamped on MILLIONS of .30-40 Krag cases over the years.
Roamin, please go back and read my posts. I've answered your question.
Your cartridge is a .30-40 Krag manufactured in the United States by Remington-UMC.
.30 USA was a standard headstamp used by Remington for the .30-40 Krag for many years.
Your round was made the Remington-UMC ammunition plant in Bridgeport, Connecticut.
Union Metallic Cartridge Company was established in Bridgeport in 1867 and manufactured there until 1912, when Remington took controlling interest in the company.
After 1912 and until 1970, REM-UMC headstamped ammunition was manufactured in the exact same plant in Bridgeport.
I posted at least one picture of one with the exact same headstamp.
As others have said, Cartridges of the World is a nice introductory survey, but it is not authoritative.
It is riddled with errors (most minor, some really -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-?!!!?) in all editions.
When you are dealing with old cartridges you MUST keep one very important point in mind -- headstamps are FLUID. Not every manufacturer used the same designation for the same round, and identifying headstamps can change over the years.
Over the years I have seen the following commercial headstamps on .30-40 Krag cartridges:
.30 USA
.30 US Army
.30 Army
.30-40
.30-40 Krag
.30 Krag
.30 USG
.30 US Gov.
ALL of those headstamps, and very likely more, have been used by companies over the years to identify the SAME cartridge -- the .30-40 Krag.
Simply put, you have a common, run of the mill cartridge with a common, run of the mill headstamp that Remington stamped on MILLIONS of .30-40 Krag cases over the years.
Last military 30/40 I bought was Frankfort Arsenal 1905. Several thousand rounds that came in cloth bandoleers , so marked. I'm going to dig some out and check head stamp.
Ammo looked clean but was degraded from inside. Ended up salvaging bullets. I think I
have a box of "30/06" labeled Winchester 30 Army. I don't remember where I saw it but the
30/06 was suppose to have been changed 7 times between origin and 1936. This is the
version that case was shortened for M1 rifle and is standard today.
Ammo looked clean but was degraded from inside. Ended up salvaging bullets. I think I
have a box of "30/06" labeled Winchester 30 Army. I don't remember where I saw it but the
30/06 was suppose to have been changed 7 times between origin and 1936. This is the
version that case was shortened for M1 rifle and is standard today.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"I'm going to dig some out and check head stamp."
If it's all military it will have an FA at the top, the F in a 10 o'clock position and the A in a 2 o'clock.
Below the primer it will have a 1 or 2 digit code at 8 o'clock to designate month of manufacture, and at 4 o'oclock two digits to designate year of manufacture (04 for 1904, 05 for 1905, etc.)
At some point, not sure exactly when, Frankford stopped stamping the month manufacture date. It may have been in the 1930s when the month was dropped.
If it's all military it will have an FA at the top, the F in a 10 o'clock position and the A in a 2 o'clock.
Below the primer it will have a 1 or 2 digit code at 8 o'clock to designate month of manufacture, and at 4 o'oclock two digits to designate year of manufacture (04 for 1904, 05 for 1905, etc.)
At some point, not sure exactly when, Frankford stopped stamping the month manufacture date. It may have been in the 1930s when the month was dropped.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"I don't remember where I saw it but the
30/06 was suppose to have been changed 7 times between origin and 1936. This is the
version that case was shortened for M1 rifle and is standard today."
Say what? Dimensionally the .30-06 case was established in 1906 with its adoption and case dimensions were never changed after that.
Projectiles were, but not the case itself.
30/06 was suppose to have been changed 7 times between origin and 1936. This is the
version that case was shortened for M1 rifle and is standard today."
Say what? Dimensionally the .30-06 case was established in 1906 with its adoption and case dimensions were never changed after that.
Projectiles were, but not the case itself.
Mike Irwin
Staff
I've been looking at old Winchester advertisements and secondary advertising to see if I could find how the various cartridges talked about in this thread have been referenced...
Here's one from post 1906 that references the .30-40 as the .30 US Army...
So far no joy in finding anything that would indicate that the .30-40 rifles were ever marked .30 Government or a variation thereof...
Which begs the question... why did Winchester us a totally different nomenclature on the cartridges?
Here's one from post 1906 that references the .30-40 as the .30 US Army...
So far no joy in finding anything that would indicate that the .30-40 rifles were ever marked .30 Government or a variation thereof...
Which begs the question... why did Winchester us a totally different nomenclature on the cartridges?
Spoke with a friend, the 1907 Winchester catalogue does not have .30-40 Krag, it has .30 Army. (also lists .30 Govt -03 and -06).
He had a pre-WWI 1895 carbine and it was marked .30 Army. And he remembers a late 20s made (custom grade) 1895 rifle a friend of his had being marked .30-40.
Can't verify that with my available references, but it seems likely. Winchester switched from .30 WCF to .30-30 in the later 20s so they MIGHT have changed the barrel marking of the .30 Army to .30-40 about that time.
He had a pre-WWI 1895 carbine and it was marked .30 Army. And he remembers a late 20s made (custom grade) 1895 rifle a friend of his had being marked .30-40.
Can't verify that with my available references, but it seems likely. Winchester switched from .30 WCF to .30-30 in the later 20s so they MIGHT have changed the barrel marking of the .30 Army to .30-40 about that time.