30 carbine: dead round?
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If you want a Chiappa (garbage) you can have it. The .30 Carbine isn't dead. It outpaces (and exceeds the power levels) of the 9mm from carbine-length barrels. Chiappa has a reputation for poor quality. From what I have seen on other threads, their "carbines" fail. Rails warp, extractors break, receivers both warp and gall.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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Model12Win
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Yes, the Chiappa copies of the M1 carbine in 9mm have gotten very bad reviews from owner.
I would avoid one.
That being said, Ruger needs to bring out their 9mm police carbine again! It is quite like an M1 carbine in 9mm, not all the way, but of good quality.
I would avoid one.
That being said, Ruger needs to bring out their 9mm police carbine again! It is quite like an M1 carbine in 9mm, not all the way, but of good quality.
The "war baby" M1 Carbine is currently in production by Kahr.
So I don't think "dead round" applies just yet. No its not the leading thing but it is still going.
9mm carbines are neat, but there is a clear power difference between the 9mm and the .30 carbine. There is a difference in their field utility. Does the difference matter? Depends on what you want to do with it.
The M1 Carbine has a big nostalgic appeal, something no modern space age looking 9mm carbine can match, and that sells guns as much as their practical utility.
Dead round? No. Not yet.
So I don't think "dead round" applies just yet. No its not the leading thing but it is still going.
9mm carbines are neat, but there is a clear power difference between the 9mm and the .30 carbine. There is a difference in their field utility. Does the difference matter? Depends on what you want to do with it.
The M1 Carbine has a big nostalgic appeal, something no modern space age looking 9mm carbine can match, and that sells guns as much as their practical utility.
Dead round? No. Not yet.
Model12Win
Moderator
For me, it would just be the low cost an easy availability of shells.
I would LOVE a high quality M1 carbine that takes Glock 9mm magazines.
I would LOVE a high quality M1 carbine that takes Glock 9mm magazines.
They are attempting to replicate the MP40...
in an M1 Carbine platform. Chiappa isn't doing too well. If someone wants something similar, look to either Colt or Olympic Arms. You won't get a wood stock, but you'll get the currently popular Mattel plastic stock.
I considered buying the Olympic Arms K10 (the "black rifle" in 10mm Auto) because it would be chambered in my favorite carry auto round. It works better in long barrels than both the 9mm or .45 ACP because it works at higher pressures than the other two.
About this time next year, I plan on having another M1 .30 Carbine because it works really well in the field and I plan on hand loading for the cartridge. This makes it easier to shoot. I can run a 110 grain Soft Point ahead of 14.4 grains of Lil' Gun. That puts it right at maximum velocities and accuracy levels as well. The 9mm can't even come close. The .30 Carbine can take Whitetail deer out as far as 50 yards. If you are caught trying to do that with a 9mm, you'll either get a hefty fine or jail time.
If you're "plinking", or no more than personal defense, a 9mm is fine. If you are making serious plans for short-range hunting, the .30 Carbine with Soft Points is a better bet. You have far more power at 50 yards.
That's an indisputable fact.
in an M1 Carbine platform. Chiappa isn't doing too well. If someone wants something similar, look to either Colt or Olympic Arms. You won't get a wood stock, but you'll get the currently popular Mattel plastic stock.
I considered buying the Olympic Arms K10 (the "black rifle" in 10mm Auto) because it would be chambered in my favorite carry auto round. It works better in long barrels than both the 9mm or .45 ACP because it works at higher pressures than the other two.
About this time next year, I plan on having another M1 .30 Carbine because it works really well in the field and I plan on hand loading for the cartridge. This makes it easier to shoot. I can run a 110 grain Soft Point ahead of 14.4 grains of Lil' Gun. That puts it right at maximum velocities and accuracy levels as well. The 9mm can't even come close. The .30 Carbine can take Whitetail deer out as far as 50 yards. If you are caught trying to do that with a 9mm, you'll either get a hefty fine or jail time.
If you're "plinking", or no more than personal defense, a 9mm is fine. If you are making serious plans for short-range hunting, the .30 Carbine with Soft Points is a better bet. You have far more power at 50 yards.
That's an indisputable fact.
I don't believe it's "dead". It's all it ever was-a compromise between a battle rifle and a handgun.
I saw a decent original on the used gun rack yesterday. I think I also saw a few spare mags and most of a 1000 round case of FMJ ammo--all in the same store.
For my purposes, a 9mm carbine serves better than a 30 carbine. I already have ammo and mags(my PC9 uses Ruger P series mags and my Marlin Camp 9 uses same mag as my S&W 915 and I have LOTS of both from 10 to 30 rounds)
I saw a decent original on the used gun rack yesterday. I think I also saw a few spare mags and most of a 1000 round case of FMJ ammo--all in the same store.
For my purposes, a 9mm carbine serves better than a 30 carbine. I already have ammo and mags(my PC9 uses Ruger P series mags and my Marlin Camp 9 uses same mag as my S&W 915 and I have LOTS of both from 10 to 30 rounds)
Really the only thing in its class is the FN PS90, between pistol and rifle power. Always popular amonst slight built people. Today there is expanding ammo not available back in the day. Pretty hard to beat as an under the bed carbine for you or your spouse if you hear glass break in the middle of the night.
Milsurp might be gone but there are millions of rifles out there so there will always be ammo from S&B and others at pistol ammo prices.
Oh and its also a hoot to shoot.
Milsurp might be gone but there are millions of rifles out there so there will always be ammo from S&B and others at pistol ammo prices.
Oh and its also a hoot to shoot.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Still have my M1 Carbine. Don't know why I kept it all these years. Maybe because it never skips a beat and being a wire stock one made by IBM it probably has some WWll or Koren history going for it. As far as 30 carbine cartridge becoming obsolete. "Don't hold you're breath." So long as its ammo wasn't a creation by Remington I think it has a good chance of being around for quite some time yet to come. Those who dream of having a 9mm M1 carbine clone. About the closes thing I've found on the Net (newly made) that may fill the bill. Check out > Hi Point Arms.
g.willikers
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It's hard to imagine that all that WW2 and Korean war surplus ammo got used up.
There must still be literally tons of it around somewhere.
One of these days, it's likely to come plopping down on the market again.
Maybe when the widows and offspring of those who originally bought it rediscover it in grandpaw's attic.
(Always wondered why Grandmaw's ceiling sagged so much).
Just an optimistic thought.
There must still be literally tons of it around somewhere.
One of these days, it's likely to come plopping down on the market again.
Maybe when the widows and offspring of those who originally bought it rediscover it in grandpaw's attic.
(Always wondered why Grandmaw's ceiling sagged so much).
Just an optimistic thought.
Why?? Its been over 60 years since the end of the Korean "war", close to 50 years since the carbine (and its ammo) were dropped by the military and put on the civilian market. And don't forget we gave carbines and LOTS of ammo to every non-communist third world "ally" who wanted them during that time.
The combination of some ammo actually being destroyed, lots begin sent to other countries (and their leftovers generally not coming back due to "arms trafficking laws"), the end, long ago of mass production for government use, and the release to the devouring civilian market in the 60s, all these add up to eat up even multi million round stockpiles over half a century.
It is likely there are still a few warehouses here and there full of USGI .30 carbine ammo that the govt "knows" it has, but doesn't realize it has. Unless those get "rediscovered" somehow, I think bulk surplus .30 carbine is pretty much done. There might be 2 millions rounds stored six rows over and two down from the Ark of the Covenant, but like the Ark, odds are we'll never see it again..
g.willikers
New member
Well that puts a damper on things.
At 30 to 50 cents a round for modern ammo, guess I don't regret selling my carbine soon after the old stuff disappeared.
Oh well, time marches on.
At 30 to 50 cents a round for modern ammo, guess I don't regret selling my carbine soon after the old stuff disappeared.
Oh well, time marches on.
Maybe not dead, then, but I will bet my collection that the US carbine is far overshadowed by the AK type in ammo and firearm sales. It almost feels like the commies alone. I believe that the 5.56 and other areas platforms own American hearts, but there are still probably more AK based can openers overrunning the planet.
The carbine had a certain simplicity and almost elegance about it.it was almost as good as my .357 carbine in power. Modern bullets like the fbi designs and powder could make it a reasonable round for medium game. It's figuratively laying by the ropes with a broken jaw and cracked ribs. It's too bad. Was it so costly to build that nobody has ever tried, or was it just apathy on the part of the shooters who literally purchased entire cargo ship's worth of AK rifles and ammo? I had an opportunity to get one many years ago, and I should have done it.
The carbine had a certain simplicity and almost elegance about it.it was almost as good as my .357 carbine in power. Modern bullets like the fbi designs and powder could make it a reasonable round for medium game. It's figuratively laying by the ropes with a broken jaw and cracked ribs. It's too bad. Was it so costly to build that nobody has ever tried, or was it just apathy on the part of the shooters who literally purchased entire cargo ship's worth of AK rifles and ammo? I had an opportunity to get one many years ago, and I should have done it.
CMP managed to sell a bunch of Carbines with no magazines for $625 and $685 with no fuss.
"...cargo ship's worth of AK rifles and ammo..." U.S. and Russians reached an agreement several years ago to not send that boat. However, a Carbine and AK comparison is an apples and oranges thing.
"...W.W. 2 and Korean war surplus ammo got used up..." More that it was exported or destroyed by assorted governments. The stuff has always been running out, eventually, anyway. Went out of U.S. service in the 70's.
"...cargo ship's worth of AK rifles and ammo..." U.S. and Russians reached an agreement several years ago to not send that boat. However, a Carbine and AK comparison is an apples and oranges thing.
"...W.W. 2 and Korean war surplus ammo got used up..." More that it was exported or destroyed by assorted governments. The stuff has always been running out, eventually, anyway. Went out of U.S. service in the 70's.
Sure, the Russians stopped shipping, but that type of rifle is still being shipped from other country. Yes, the rounds are very different. The carbine isn't a super powered thing, it's a moderate power rifle, but still worthwhile. I'd love to put my hands on a cmp but there are restrictions and costs. I could pick up a stripped are at that price.
Model12Win
Moderator
.30 carbine really offers nothing that .300 BLK OUT offers, even 7.62x39mm is a much better choice.
I think most people have given up on the M1 carbine due to the obsolete, out of date and under powered round.
The 9 miker miker is a phenomenal target and plinking round out of a rifle. But for real social work, it and .30 carbine do not cut it. Why do you think almost all PDs have switched from 9mm subguns to 5.56 ARs?
I myself prefer the .308 Win/7.62x51mm NATO for personal defense use. It has the attributes I look for in a rifle, and is a sure stopper at the closer ranges likely in a defensive scenario. With modern fragmenting tac rounds, the overpenetration risk is no greater than 5.56/.223. But as a fun and cheap plinker, I bypass .30 carbine and even 5.56/.223 and go to the 9mm. No reason not to when just punching beer cans or paper targets methinks.
But when the fecal matter hits the proverbial rotational atmospheric recirculation device, I don't want anything in my hands but my 7.62x51mm NATO chambered PTR-91 loaded with Hornady TAP Urban 110 grain rounds. Devastating.
I think most people have given up on the M1 carbine due to the obsolete, out of date and under powered round.
The 9 miker miker is a phenomenal target and plinking round out of a rifle. But for real social work, it and .30 carbine do not cut it. Why do you think almost all PDs have switched from 9mm subguns to 5.56 ARs?
I myself prefer the .308 Win/7.62x51mm NATO for personal defense use. It has the attributes I look for in a rifle, and is a sure stopper at the closer ranges likely in a defensive scenario. With modern fragmenting tac rounds, the overpenetration risk is no greater than 5.56/.223. But as a fun and cheap plinker, I bypass .30 carbine and even 5.56/.223 and go to the 9mm. No reason not to when just punching beer cans or paper targets methinks.
But when the fecal matter hits the proverbial rotational atmospheric recirculation device, I don't want anything in my hands but my 7.62x51mm NATO chambered PTR-91 loaded with Hornady TAP Urban 110 grain rounds. Devastating.
Gunplummer
New member
I can't believe that no one one this forum has yet to whine that there should be a lever action in .30 carbine. It would seem that everything else close to a pistol round is a "Must" for lever actions.
Gun Plummer, what's wrong with that? Historically nearly every lever gun wad a pistol caliber selection, such as 32-20, 45 colt 44, even a few rounds akin to the 9 and .45. They aren't necessary, but a 30 would be a nice shooter. People used to buy up surplus rifles
Jim Carmichael was one of the great hunting/shooting experts. The carbine was one of his favorites. I'm pretty sure that he'd hate either of the others.
It almost sounds like some of you are saying "good riddance to bad rubbish" and I don't get that. It's been replaced by other, more useful rounds, but that doesn't mean a lot. I shoot my .357 lever all of the time, but I never thought about a 30 carbine, or as it would node normally be, a 25-20 or 32-20
If you're someone who is prone to pipe dreams and wishful thinking, this is a great idea. Personally, I've still not given up on Browning creating a drilling rifle with a rimmed nitro express main and a powerful thirty secondary.
Jim Carmichael was one of the great hunting/shooting experts. The carbine was one of his favorites. I'm pretty sure that he'd hate either of the others.
It almost sounds like some of you are saying "good riddance to bad rubbish" and I don't get that. It's been replaced by other, more useful rounds, but that doesn't mean a lot. I shoot my .357 lever all of the time, but I never thought about a 30 carbine, or as it would node normally be, a 25-20 or 32-20
If you're someone who is prone to pipe dreams and wishful thinking, this is a great idea. Personally, I've still not given up on Browning creating a drilling rifle with a rimmed nitro express main and a powerful thirty secondary.
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