.243 Winchester and elk: FIRSTHAND experiences requested.

[UniversalFrost]

what other forum?

how many of them have ever shot an elk?

personally, the ultra mags are for the folks that have an inferiority complex or something to make up for

the Game Kings are some good bullets and can hold up to any thin skinned animal in NA

 

[Jack O'Conner]

I'm very skeptical about the tale that someone observed an elk dropped in its tracks. This cartridge was engineered and has been advertised for deer and varmints. 243 is my favorite antelope hunting rifle!

My sister-in-law hunted with a Browning BLR in 257 Roberts for 5 years. During that time, she toppled many mulies and antelope. But it was less-than-ideal for her elk hunts. Last bull she shot with this rifle was hit 3 times and chased several miles before the final shot end it. Admittably, the first 3 shots were not perfect broadside presentations and the bullets did not rupture both lungs. After this episode, my brother traded the rifle for an identical Browning in 7mm-08. This cartridge carries a far more lethal punch yet recoil is about the same.

Of course 243 is a terrific deer hunting cartridge with long range lethal results. But it's limitations are bound by a fairly small diameter. This means perfect shot placement is required. How many novice elk hunters have the patience and skill to know when to pass on firing because shot angle is poor? This is a question that has many variable answers, indeed.

Vast majority of seasoned elk hunters that I know would never consider hunting an animal of this size and tenacity with 243. These are hunters that are skilled with patience and knowledge.

My elk rifle is .308 and I've had good luck with 180 grain bullets. First shot is precisely aimed as shown on attached photo. Second shot is fired as quickly as a possible into the general chest/shoulder area. Results: the animal topples over and kicks a few times.

Good hunting to you.
Jack

 

[Art Eatman]

Again--and again, and again--ya gotta figure out who you're talking to, and who you're talking about: A skilled shooter/hunter, or a guy who shoots ten rounds a year, at most.

What might be good for the first guy might be totally unsuitable for the second. Keep that in mind when you're generalizing about the good or bad of any rifle/cartridge combination.

Art

 

[Chuck Dye]

UniversalFrost,

My question, here and at The High Road, was actually a request for members' experiences hunting elk with the .243 Winchester, so there is nothing to follow up. (A depressingly small number of replies have actually addressed that request, the rest have only driven down the signal-to-noise ratio, now also a depressingly small number.)

Perhaps I should have been even more specific than merely capitalizing FIRSTHAND:

Have you shot elk with the .243 Win.? If not, please do not reply. If so, what loads at what ranges and what were the results in terms of follow up shots required, distance to collapse, etc.

Have you been present when other hunters shot elk with the .243 Win.? If not, please do not reply. If so, what loads at what ranges and what were the results?

Are you a guide whose customers have shot elk with the .243 Win.? If not, please do not reply. If so, what loads at what ranges and to what results?

Nothing posted here will change the choice of the .243 Win. Cogent, responsive, replies might have influenced the practice regime leading to the hunt. As the two threads are now, I will not even refer my friend to either.

 

[ZeroJunk]

LOL You have an overwhelming consensus from 2 or 3 generations of experienced hunters that suggest that the 243 Winchester is a poor choice for Elk and then you don't get a lot of responses from people using it. Imagine that.

 

[UniversalFrost]

yeah, I am a fanatic .243 guy for everything under the size of an elk, but no way would i use it on elk or bigger.


man you gotta love those barnes x bullets on big muleys and white tail and the hollow points and varmint bullets are great on yotes and smaller.

 

[Chuck Dye]

Actually, if you check the threads, the experienced hunters, those with experience of hunting elk with the .243 Winchester present a surprisingly high success ratio. Yes, responses from self selected populations make for poor arguments and "anecdotal evidence" is still an oxymoron. By now, though, the point is moot: the signal-to-noise-ratios of this and the THR thread render them virtually useless to my purposes.

My thanks to those who actually addressed the question and to those few who did not address the question but contributed to my effort.

 

[ZeroJunk]

I've hunted them about every year since 1986, usually with a bow. It's the only way you can hunt during the rut and calling a bull up within 15 or 20 yards is a rush whether you can get a shot off or not.
So, I have no doubt you can kill an elk with a 243.
But, you won't find an outfitter that suggests you bring one, and many wouldn't even allow it.

The only reason to use a 243 is
1 It's all you have
2 You are writing an article for some magazine
3 You don't know what you are doing
4 You are a patient excellent marksman who will wait on a close perfect shot


See the thread about deer with a Daisy

If he is really your inexperienced friend, why are you so determined to lead him in a direction that could in many cases limit his chance of success as witnessed by the great preponderance of experience of the last 53 years. Is there some physical handicap?

 

[UniversalFrost]

i have a 7mm-08 that is about the same recoil as my .243 loaded hot.

my wife has no problems shooting it and she is very petite

7mm-08 with the 140gr winchester silver tips is elk medicine for a recoil shy shooter.

JOE

 

[ELMOUSMC]

Hey Chuck lighten up!

It seems to me you got what you were asking for.It would seem that you didn't want to hear firsthand reports and the advice from many of the experinced hunters and shooters that the .243 is marginal at best for animals the size of Elk and add to that in the hands of an inexperinced hunter/shooter.Sorry you were so disappointed in the responces maybe the next time you post a thread no one will reply and you won't have to be so upset ELMOUSMC

 

[AZAK]

Chuck, let your friend read the threads and decide!!!

As the two threads are now, I will not even refer my friend to either.

I do not often try to tell someone their business, OK Maybe I do, but:

Censoring good information and steering your friend away from a forum of experienced and knowledgeable resources that can be found here and at The High Road sounds to me like you might be trying to sell a 243!

There is a reason that you are receiving the replies that you are.

Buck up and smell the coffee my friend!!!

And yes I have shot 243, and would never take one elk hunting, see my previous reply to this thread.

Happy Trails

 

[Chuck Dye]

ELMOUSMC and AZAK,

The friends whom I would like to persuade in this matter are literate and search engine capable. They have more than adequate access to libraries and the net. There are no shortages of gun shop Nimrods, ballisticians, or gun rag fueled pedants (*sigh*). The problem I had hoped to overcome with my original post is that there is a paucity of primary sources who can say "I shot an X pound bull at Y yards with load Z, this is what resulted."

My friends and I know why most believe the .243 Win inadequate to marginal for elk. I solicited help from those who know from first hand experience. I received very few reports. Surprisingly most are success stories, but self selected samples make for lousy statistics. As the tag lotteries dole out opportunities, my friends will begin compiling their own data.

 

[ZeroJunk]

If I had a failure on an Elk with a 243 I would be remiss in posting it on a forum knowing that most any knowledgeable person reading would think I was foolish for using it. I suspect that skews your results.

Or, the hunters having success with the cartridge are seasoned rifleman, and understand perfectly well it's capabilities, not the novice described in the OP.

paucity of primary sources who can say

Translate. Shortage of hunter's without better sense.

Must be some kind of testosterone thing since it is completely void of logic.

 

[Chuck Dye]

AZAK,

There is no "censoring" involved, not of good information or web noise, I will merely not refer.

There is no "steering away" involved, just no steering toward.

There are precious few "experienced and knowledgeable resources" involved. (On the web, even the responsive replies to my request must be viewed as potentially fictitious.)

The only dog I have in this fight is the time and effort I will invest should we need to track a wounded animal. I have nothing to sell.

There are several reasons I expected few responsive answers: TFL and THR are likely read by a very small minority of elk hunters; only a small minority of those readers have experience with the .243 Win. on elk; a minority of those with such experience are likely to respond, especially if their experience is negative. My disappointment here is the terrible signal-to-noise ratio.

Any smell of coffee here has long since been overwhelmed by the stench of dogma.

Never have, never will? You should not have answered a call for firsthand experience.

 

[ZeroJunk]

I am thinking about taking up deer hunting and I don't want them to get away.
I am considering either a 30/378 or a 460 WBY.

I only want responses from people who have hunted deer with these too calibers and will consider anything else nimrod periodical regurgitation.

I also want to pull my 36 foot camper on the hunting trips with a Chevy S10 and would only like responses from those with experience doing this.


What a crock.

 

[ELMOUSMC]

I have never fired a gun before but I want to try varmint hunting,an inexperenced friend of mine said I should use a Rigby .500 nitro express.I would only like comments from people who have used this caliber for groundhog and chipmunks ELMOUSMC:barf:

 

[birdshot]

460 will work

i have used the 458 loaded with remington 500 RNSP on a young doe. est live weight 100 lbs. a chest shot at 50 yards, i did not recover the bullet. seemed to be adequate. i am sure you could expect similiar results with your 460. i have found these calibers really shine when used to bag ceramic fixtures found in the dumps. i don't have any first hand info concerning your s-10 so i won't comment further.

 

[ZeroJunk]

seemed to be adequate.

LOL

 

[Bud Helms]

Have you shot elk with the .243 Win.? If not, please do not reply. If so, ...

Have you been present when other hunters shot elk with the .243 Win.? If not, please do not reply. If so, ...

Are you a guide whose customers have shot elk with the .243 Win.? If not, please do not reply. If so, ...

Chuck, nice try, but this is the internet and TFL is a bulletin board on that *net. As reasonable as your requests may be, it is part of the deal to receive responses that don't fit your requirements for an answer. You probably have used your Google skills to find your answers by this time.

Though I'm sure there are several good, thoughtful, experienced answers in this thread, this is not one of them:

I do not often try to tell someone their business, OK Maybe I do, but:

Censoring good information and steering your friend away from a forum of experienced and knowledgeable resources that can be found here and at The High Road sounds to me like you might be trying to sell a 243!

There is a reason that you are receiving the replies that you are.

Buck up and smell the coffee my friend!!!

And yes I have shot 243, and would never take one elk hunting, see my previous reply to this thread.

Happy Trails

Neither is this:

I have never fired a gun before but I want to try varmint hunting,an inexperenced friend of mine said I should use a Rigby .500 nitro express.I would only like comments from people who have used this caliber for groundhog and chipmunks ELMOUSMC

A couple of other comments:

1) An anecdote is not necessarily an oxymoron.

2) We do not live in a democracy. We live in a Constitutional Republic.

Now that this thread has my attention, I would advise refraining from posting any more unnessecarily argumentive, repetitive or uncivil replies. That goes for everyone in this thread. Or you could just wait until Art gets back online. He has a talent for making you smile while he does what is required. I do not.

 

[Art Eatman]

Now that I'm back from beeyootiful Alpine, affectionately known by us South Brewster County locals as Alpendejo, I can get back to playing moderator. Momma will allow that, now that the groceries are unloaded.

Anyhow, this thread started May 25th. It hasn't produced much in the way of positive results.

Let's not waste any more bandwidth, okay?

Art

Edit-add: This post came via PM from ZeroJunk:

"I have hunted Elk twenty some years. It will cost me $6000 this year. I have spent at least $75,000 on Elk hunting most of it going to outfitters and Mt Fish Wildlife and Parks.
I have spent 23 weeks camped in the Bob Marshall Wilderness. Most on Lynx Creek hunting Biggs flats on the N fork Of the Sun river. Some on Cox Creek above the Flathead and some on Whitetail Creek above the Dearborn. Since I take between 6 and 8 people I have introduced dozens of new Elk hunters to the sport, contributing many thousands of dollars to the industry.
The smallest cartridge I have seen used is 270 Winchester. I use 280AI or 30/06 if I am rifle hunting.

The outfitter who I have known forever requires a minimum of 160 grain. He's the one that has to track the animal all over and try to get mules in to wherever after a bad shot.
Tell him you want to use a 243 and he will simply tell you to go somewhere else.

I've seen dozens killed and a few lost. I have seen some killed with a shot placement where a 243 would never have the penetration necessary.

Anybody is free to decide whether my opinion is worthwhile or not, but I will give it when something is going in a direction that my experience indicates makes no sense."