.22WMR , .32H&R & .38 recoil/stopping power

[Mikeyboy]

In coming up with a Self Defense revolver for my wife, who currently uses a .22lr Taurus, and hates shooting my .38 snubbies due to the recoil, I came up with the follow candidates;

.22wmr - More ommph than a .22lr but increased muzzleblast. The longer the barrel the better the preformance. Expensive compared to the .22lr but still cheaper than most centerfire ammo. While not extremely popular, 22 magnum is easy to find at most places that sell ammo.

.32H&R magnum, bigger hole than a .22 and slightly better performance than a .22wmr, with a heavier bullet and a little more girth but similar velocities. Ammo is very, very hard to find, limited and expensive.

.38 wadcutters in a heavy revolver- Not sure if this is a simple solution, problem is it make carry extremely difficult. Ammo is easy to find, stooping power is ok, how much more recoil do I get compared to the other 2.

A pistol is not an option , because I like the reliability of a revolver....Decision, Decisions...help me out guys.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Maybe a 3" .38 with mid-range wadcutters would work.

 

[dbgun]

Have the same problem with my wife. Didn't like the Bersa 380, but did like & shot very well, with The H&R 732 (.32 S&W long). I have a .32H&R mag that she hasn't tried yet, which I'm hoping she like as well. The reason she didn't like the Bersa, was because the ejected casings were bouncing off the wall (indoor range) and hitting her on the head, which made her flinch on her next shot. Need to take her an outdoor range, I guess.

 

[Bellevance]

I'd hate to have my wife relying on a .22 in self-defense crisis, no matter how comfortable she might be with the revolver. My wife was leery of the recoil of my 2-inch Smith .38 (Model 10) as well. She said she was afraid that she couldn't "control" the gun, and the "suddenness" alarmed her. So I bought her a Model 15 with a 4-inch barrel, which felt "more substantial" to her. In her case, it proved to be a matter of working her way down to the snub after getting used to the feel of the heavier handgun. After a couple weeks shooting the 15 she transitioned easily to the Model 10, and now she likes it. She doesn't carry, but in a home defense situation she would be capable now with a .38.

Maybe your wife could start out with a 6-inch barrel (and wadcutters) and work her way down. Worth a try.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I have a 32 H&R Mag air weight J Frame...

even with Magnum cartridges it's very easy to shoot, not loud enough to cause a flinch or be painful, & holds 6 rounds...

the personal defense rounds I have for it are about equal with 38 special in stopping power... & the gun is very very light weight

431 PD...

 

[L_Killkenny]

The .32 H&R isn't just a little better than the .22 mag, IT SMOKES IT!! .38 ballistics with half the recoil. Handloaders will push the .32 mag to beyond .38+P.

I doubt that a perp shot with the .22 mag will stop fighting any faster than if it were shot with the .22 LR and if I had my choice I'd carry the .22 LR over the mag because of cheap practice ammo.

I'm not one of those that tells people not to carry a .22 LR. Most bad guys won't be asking what gun you have shoved in their face. That being said the .32 H&R is a great little round.

LK

FYI: I've been reading that the .32 ACP will work fine in most guns chambered for either the .32 mag or the .32 S&W long. You might consider getting her an older .32 S&W long and trying the ACP's in it. IMO, even the little .32 acp is loads better than the .22 mag.

 

[Mikeyboy]

The .32 H&R isn't just a little better than the .22 mag, IT SMOKES IT!! .38 ballistics with half the recoil. Handloaders will push the .32 mag to beyond .38+P.

FYI: I've been reading that the .32 ACP will work fine in most guns chambered for either the .32 mag or the .32 S&W long. You might consider getting her an older .32 S&W long and trying the ACP's in it. IMO, even the little .32 acp is loads better than the .22 mag.

That is a little off. Chrony results from www.gunblast.com reviews from the taurus 941 and the taurus 731 both with the same barrel length
basically show 50g Federal Game-Shok JHP .22wmr and a 100g (assuming Georgia Arms) .32H&R mag round both come out at a little over 900fps. Looking at www.brassfetcher.com and wet pack test done by a guy named Old Grandpa on some Kel Tec websites (unfortunately his results were taken down for some reason, shame he did a lot of great stuff). I have yet to see a Federal .32H&R Mag JHP round expand well in Gel or wetpak, .22wmr has issues with expansion too, but if a .22wmr expands to about .31" and gets around the same penetration in gel test than a .32H&R that is not expanding...well it makes you wonder.

The .22wmr will slightly outperform a .32acp. Using .32acp in a .32H&R mag is asking for trouble. See http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254543 . It can be done as an emergency only but your talking about a serious gap that bullet has to jump. I'm not buying some 50year old $100 .32S&W long that if the forcing cone get wrecked using a .32acp its no big deal. This will be a new or like new expensive gun for my wife's self defense. If the .32H&R mag was as popular as .38 or 9mm I would not have an issue, but it is one of those round that may not exist 10 years from now. Very,very few gun/ammo stores carry .32mag, so most of my ammo will be bought online. In 10 years when there is no .32H&R available will I be stuck using .32S&W Long which is slightly worse than .32acp, or will I be using .32acp rounds and crossing my fingers. Hopefully I'm wrong, and .32H&R will slowly become more popular. We will see.

I can still buy .22mag in places like Wallyworld, and there is still a decent amount of handguns and rifles that use this caliber.

 

[Hammer It]

The .32 H&R isn't just a little better than the .22 mag, IT SMOKES IT!! .38 ballistics with half the recoil. Handloaders will push the .32 mag to beyond .38+P.

Hello
Having several S&W revolver's chambered in this round I have to agree, that the .32 H&R magnum Loaded by hand is way more Lethal than the .38 Special even in Plus-P form. The down side is no One makes a round that shows the Potential that can be gained in Handloading this cartridge. I have loaded it up and Beyond what Load manuels reccomend, and we must remember the Load manuels are giving loads that are safe in ALL guns and we know that at it's factory level it Barely exceeded the .38 special offerings, and it was Intended for the H&R revolver which can not take the Higher Pressures a S&W revolver can. Before someone Jumps me here I have nothing against an H&R Handgun, They just are not my cup of tea and the caliber suffered in factory form intended for Their revolvers, which Killed it from the Start. The Current sittuation if you are inclined to buy a dependable S&W revolver chambered in it are the 431 PD Model. They have been discontinued but there are still Plenty of them floating around to Purchase. One attractive feature is this caliber enables 6 shots in a small-J-frame revolver compared to it's brother the model 36 in .38 Special which only offer's 5 Because of Larger cases. The recoil and report of a .32 H&R magum is much less than any .38 special in the smaller-J-frame size and the 431 is an Air-Weight which allows for easy carry comfort. If you handload or have a buddy you can trust that handloads this caliber, that is what will really show you what it is capible of. I use both the 85 Grain Hornady XTP Bullet in handloading along with the Lighter 60 Grain Gold dot Bullets. You can Push a 60 Grain Gold dot above and beyond the velocity of any .38 Plus-P in this round, and Bullet expansion in the Upper velocity levels is far more superior than the slower heavier .38 Special Bullets even in a Plus-P Form, I have tried it and seen the difference as I have both Caliber's in the S&W -J-Frame. I would suggest the S&W model 431 PD and remember all these Test's of the .32 H&R Magnum round or Self Proclaimed theories of the .32 H&R magnum being a weak offering were Performed with the Meek Factory loads not a high Performing hand Load.. Hammer It.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Couldn't have said it any better...

er well OK...

don't remember what my factory personal defense loads were but believe they were gold dot bullets...

BTW... I almost feel bad shooing my 32 J frame ( which I just bought NIB, about 6 months ago ), as I'm a big guy, & shooting it seems almost girlie because the extremely light recoil, report, ease of control, accurcy, light weight...

... it almost seems too light to be a self defense gun...

 

[Hammer It]

Who could ask for anything More ?

because the extremely light recoil, report, ease of control, accurcy, light weight...

Hi
To me this is what makes a perfect Carry handgun. Hammer It.

 

[Moloch]

Just to remember some people here that .22WMR is deadlier than a .22lr at same velocity with same weight. The .22lr is a pure lead bullet, maybe copper plated but the .22wmr is a real bullet with a though jacket and its HP expands better than a pure lead bullet. There is also the better bone penetration you get with jacketed bullets because the dont flatten out at the rips.
There is also a small thing that small bullets do better than bigger bullets with the same energy, the go better through the space between the ribs and there is a higher possibility to dump alot more energy at the heart and lung area than a bigger bullet with more energy might cause.

But since the .22wmr does not have the same veloicty of a .22lr, its far more deadlier.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

ya... I've got nothing against a 22 mag revolver either...

we have a Taurus 8 shot 4" stainless 22 mag revolver in the bedroom for my wife to use, but it is louder than the 32 Mag...

... I'd hate to get hit with either, & consider them about equal on "fire power", with the Taurus have the slightly weaker cartridge, but 2 more rounds in capacity...

 

[Mikeyboy]

You can Push a 60 Grain Gold dot above and beyond the velocity of any .38 Plus-P in this round, and Bullet expansion in the Upper velocity levels is far more superior than the slower heavier .38 Special Bullets even in a Plus-P Form

Hammer It, have you Chronograph this round ? I'm curious what the results were.

we have a Taurus 8 shot 4" stainless 22 mag revolver in the bedroom for my wife to use, but it is louder than the 32 Mag...

... I'd hate to get hit with either, & consider them about equal on "fire power", with the Taurus have the slightly weaker cartridge, but 2 more rounds in capacity...

Is it significantly more louder? If the flash and report is real bad, it might make some people flinch.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Taurus 22 Mag...

is louder & more muzzle flash, & with a 2" longer barrel than my 32 J Frame

both are great guns for those more sensitive to recoil noise muzzle blast etc...

 

[Mikeyboy]

is louder & more muzzle flash, & with a 2" longer barrel than my 32 J Frame

both are great guns for those more sensitive to recoil noise muzzle blast etc...

But it is not .357 loud is it? I hear a few who said it is that bad. Still I read other thread that say the .22wmr out of a short barrel has a loud crack to it, similar to an M16 going off but the volume is not deafening like a .357 or a .44 mag

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

without a decimeter...

... & out of a 2" longer barrel... yes 22 Mag is louder than the 32... IMO, it's sharper than a 38 Special, but not quite or very close to as loud... ( if that makes sense ??? ) the 38 Special & 32 Mag ( for that matter ) are deeper toned than the 22 Mag, with the 32 being quietest, then 22 / 38 about the same loudness level, with a 357 Mag being much louder than any of the previous listed...

course your asking a middle aged guy that spent most of his earlier working life in loud environments, listening to loud rock music, & enjoying loud hobbies like shooting & powersports...

... can you say industrial deafness... huh ... wad ya say ???

 

[Mikeyboy]

... can you say industrial deafness... huh ... wad ya say ???

Been there, done that.

Even though I wear hear protection while shooting, I don't want to have the one time I shoot off a round without protection to be my last. Some people gave me the impression that a .22wmr coming out of a 2" barrel will make blood pour out of ears up to a mile away and the flash will blind you for life

 

[Hammer It]

Hammer It, have you Chronograph this round ? I'm curious what the results were.

Hello
I have Using my Model 16-4 K-Frame revolver and using IMR 2400 Powder with the 60 Grain Gold dot it clocked a consistent 1420- 1450 with a 6" Barrel using my Chrony Meter set up. Some were almost 1500 with a Lighter crimp, but I had Bullets Move out on me when Testing the Lighter crimped loads. This round requires a tight crimp as the Bullets will move out and Bind up an action, and I would Not reccomend it in the smaller weaker-J-frames. Regards, Hammer It

 

[StrikeEagle]

Maybe a 3" .38 with mid-range wadcutters would work.

Bingo. Nothing tricky, nothing expensive, nothing that's difficult to find on the shelf. That's the answer.

 

[crowbeaner]

I used to make up 148 gr. wadcutters over 3.0 of Bullseye for the spouse's M 10 S&W for general practice and she preferred to carry that load in it. I know that it was darned accurate and shot almost perfectly to point of aim. Recoil wasn't even noticeable to her and I sure as HE** wouldn't want to get hit by one. That flat point may not penetrate as far as a .22 mag. but it might smart just a little. I'd stick to the .38 so you can get ammo anywhere you find a good deal. Handloading can increase the power, and makes for inexpensive practice. .38 brass is going begging on ebay right now.