.22lr with reduced charge used by the Mossad?

[simonrichter]

Somewhere I have read that the Mossad used special, .22lr rounds with a reduced charge (and, thus, adjusted springs) in order to reduce the sound signature of the Beretta 70s used by its assassins (unfortunately I couldn't retrieve the source). Does anybody have any more information on that issue and, in any case, would it make sense? A 22lr out of a pistol is already quite weak, and still it will be quite loud even if the charge is reduced...

 

[JohnKSa]

My guess is that rather than going to the trouble to come up with a reduced charge .22LR, they would simply use a gun that chambered .22Short.

 

[Mobuck]

Aguila Colibri and Super Colibri, Remington C-Bee, and CCI Low Noise(?)
all feature reduced velocity and noise.
Super Colibri from a 3" barrel is similar to a loud hand clap but I have serious doubts of it penetrating a human skull. I have seen it fail to penetrate the skull of an old boar coon while using it on the trapline.

 

[JD0x0]

I think a lot of that 'special ammo' is not so special after all. My (complete) guess is that what is meant by that is that subsonic rounds are used. Rather than high velocity .22LR

I see no reason to use the 'quiet' ammo which often leaves the barrel at roughly 600FPS (try reliably penetrating the skull with that...)

You don't need those 'quiet' rounds to be as quiet as you need to be. With a suppressed firearm, all you need is a bullet under the speed of sound. Should be very easy to achieve that in a .22 pistol, even without 'specialized' ammo.

Honestly on a loud city street, I'd bet a large percentage of people wouldn't even notice a (unsuppressed) subsonic .22 being shot, by sound alone.

 

[weblance]

I find it difficult to believe that a Government Agency, that equips its assassins, wouldnt use a suppressor, but instead, use a low powered round to lessen the sound signature. That makes no sense to me.

 

[ThomasT]

The information you have came from a book titled "Vengeance" by George Jonus dealing with the Mossad teams sent to kill the terrorist who carried out the 1972 Munich Massacre of the Isreali athelete's in the olympics.

They did use reduced loads but from what I can tell they were nothing more than standard velocity rounds instead of high speed 22 rounds. No mention was made of using reduced power springs in thier guns. Plus the guns they used on the mission were bought from a source they had and returned after a "Hit" was carried out. They did say the guns sounded loud when they used them to kill a terroist but didn't attract attention to outsiders when used in a building.

They did not report making any head shots. Head shots aren't recommended even with high speed 22s because of the soft lead bullets. They were trained to aim, fire two quick shots and reaim and fire two more quick shots. Most of their targets were shot with at least three burst from two agents for about 12-14 bullets in each target. A couple of times they only fired about 4 bullets in a target.

The book is available on Amazon and is a darn good read. I wore out my first copy and am on my second book. The book was the basis for the movie "Munich". Trust me, the book is far better than the movie. I hope this answers some of your questions.

 

[simonrichter]

great replies, thank y'all.

That makes sense, I also think that the just used standard velocity ammunition.

As far as the "colibri" rounds are concerned, are these really that quiet even out of a pistol barrel? I once tried to shoot .22lr "Z" (for "Zimmer", "room") out of a 5" barrel, and it still makes quite a crack...

 

[jonnyc]

There is considerable doubt that "Vengeance" is not that historically accurate, but I believe they did get the part about the ammo correct. When I lived in Israel the subject came up with a few fellow shooters. Although some of them would have been in a position to know about any "special" .22 ammo, none had ever heard of any. The group that I shot with included former ElAl security, members of various special forces, and some others with interesting backgrounds.
I have found my Beretta .22s to be very accurate and reliable with .22 Short, Long, and Long Rifle ammo, so I also doubt that any spring modifications would have been necessary.

 

[carguychris]

As far as the "colibri" rounds are concerned, are these really that quiet even out of a pistol barrel?

They're about as loud as hammering a nail forcefully- they'll hurt unprotected ears in a confined space, but out in the open, they're very mild. They really don't sound like a gun being fired.

BTW Aguila- the maker of this ammo- sells two types, Colibri and Super Colibri. Both lack powder, but the latter has a larger primer charge, and is recommended for use in rifles. Standard Colibris should only be used in pistols.

Also, I have yet to find a .22 semi-auto that will cycle them reliably, even by hand. The problem is not just the lack of oomph- it's also the short and sharply pointed bullet, which makes them hang up on the feed ramp. However, they work fine in my revolvers and bolt rifles (the Supers in the latter case).

 

[carguychris]

I have found my Beretta .22s to be very accurate and reliable with .22 Short, Long, and Long Rifle ammo...

Which Berettas?

I've found that Shorts don't feed reliably from most LR magazines because of the reduced length; in fact, sometimes they'll kinda collapse on themselves before you even get the mag filled.

 

[jonnyc]

I have 4 slightly different Model 71s.

 

[Mobuck]

I used the Super Colibri one trapping season(about 100 coons) so have a good comparison. As I said the sound from a 3" SR22 is comparative to a loud hand clap or slapping a couple of 10-12" pieces of 2x4 board together. A 5.5" Ruger 22/45 is slightly quieter-a moderate hand clap. I quit using this ammo after determining it didn't kill coons satisfactorily and was too inaccurate to kill skunks from 20-25'. It also failed to feed from the magazine if more than 1 or 2 rounds were loaded.
Last year I used Remington C-Bee ammo with much better results. Totally adequate terminal effect, feeds from magazine, suitably accurate ,and only marginally more noise.

 

[skizzums]

colibre is pretty cool idea, but sooo inaccurate, I couldnt keep on paper from my back deck to the ground with a sighted in scoped 10/22, it would be fun with a revolver I guess, at very close distance. it is very quiet, even from a my ruger pistol, will not cycle any semi that I have had. I think the hand clap is the best description of the sound.

if I read a "reduced power" .22 round, I would just assume sub-sonic

 

[KyJim]

I've shot some .22 Colibri from my SW K-22 revolver. It was noticeably quieter than standard LR ammo (I was wearing ear protection outside). I was just plinking at fairly short distances (10-12 yards), so I didn't notice any difference in accuracy.

 

[amd6547]

I've shot CCI Quiet 22lr in my 6" barrel Beretta 71. It functioned the pistol, and is indeed very quiet. About as loud as a loud hand clap.

 

[sgms]

Did a quick search on government issue suppressed weapons just for fun and none of those found were in .22. The 4 most found were the Soviet PB in 9x18 m/m makarov, then 2 from china the type 64 & 67 in 7.65x7 m/m, the last being the US MK 22 "Hushpuppy" in 9 m/m nato using a subsonic round (the Mk. 22 is a highly modified S&W Model 39 with oversized sights, suppressor, high cap magazine, and detachable shoulder stock). All of them have a slide lock to keep the action from cycling to keep them quiet and were rather long coming in around 12 inches in length.

 

[Mobuck]

Keep in mind there are many "one off" or non-production modified guns for these uses. "Government agencies" can get anything they want with adequate incentive.

 

[bikerbill]

I still have most of a box of Aguila .22LR SSS, called Sniper Subsonic on the box. It features a 60gr lead bullet which is actually longer than the case.

No specs on the box for fps.

I still have most of the box because it won't cycle my Smith 22a. It's pretty quiet, tho.

 

[JD0x0]

I still have most of a box of Aguila .22LR SSS, called Sniper Subsonic on the box. It features a 60gr lead bullet which is actually longer than the case.

No specs on the box for fps.

Those are fairly easy to get. IIRC published velocity is 950FPS from a rifle length barrel. The 60 grain SSS is one subsonic load that will benefit from a long barrel. At 5'' velocity is roughly 800FPS

Those bullets tend to be too long to stabilize in the standard 1:16'' twist barrels. And usually require a slightly faster twist to stabilize them for flight.

Also they do tend to have enough power to cycle a semi auto action. With that heavy bullet and fairly large powder charge, to get it moving at those speeds, it should generate power and gasses to cycle most .22 LR actions. What I have read is that they can have problems feeding due to the very long bullet, and relatively short case. but as far as cycling the action, there shouldn't really be any problems there. If your gun can cycle 'standard' velocity ammo, it should be able to cycle the 60 grain SSS in most cases.

 

[amd6547]

I fired a mag of the Aguila SSS load in my beretta 71...it also functioned. Pretty accurate, too. The box I have is a couple years old...I would like to pick up some more.
It is well known that the US govt used the High Standard 22 with suppressor (one was in Francis Gary Powers bailout kit in the U2 incident). Later, they used the Ruger Standard model. I would be very surprised if there weren't a bunch still in inventory.