.22 Magnum Critical Defense?

[chewie146]

I just found a link to a new defensive ammunition from Hornady. I use the critical defense ammunition in my 637 Smith, and it seems to be some good stuff. There aren't a lot of street reports on the stuff, but the 110 grain bullet has low recoil, and the design is sound, based on the LeveRevolution ammo. I guess they've decided to put the same design into the .22 magnum.

What do you all think? I think it would be a good little round for the recoil shy, and .22 magnum revolvers in the J frame run 7 rounds, compared to the conventional 5, and Taurus revolvers will run 8 or 9, I believe.

http://www.hornady.com/store/22-WMR-45gr-Critical-Defense/

Hornady claims 100 lb feet from a snubbie smith and 289 lb feet from a rifle. The rifle is obviously a good choice for the .22 magnum regardless of make, but the 100 lb feet is nothing to sneeze at. It's far less from ideal, though, as the .32 auto XTP from the same company is pushing 133. If anything, it should be interesting for coyote hunting, if not personal defense.

 

[Jim March]

It's interesting but Speer has a new Gold Dot 22Mag "short barrel" load that looks even better. Better slug, slightly more energy and above all, the shell and primer are from CCI (a Speer subsidiary) and that's the best rimfire ignition you can get.

http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/954.htm

Doesn't look impressive until you note the "test barrel length" - 1.9"!

This stuff is "all that" and would be my first choice over the Hornady.

 

[hornetguy]

Has anyone tried the KelTec handgun in .22mag? I think it holds something like 30 rounds? I saw a pic of one for the first time yesterday. If nothing else, that might be a good backpacking type thing.

 

[Rifleman1776]

My view on all the ammo designs and caliber discussions for self-defense is way overblown. I understand the arguments and believe folks like law enforcement officers should have the best possible. But, for the average home owner or CCW person, IMHO, most of the discussion are just talk. It is my opinion, and three times experience, that simply the appearence of a self defense weapon can (I didn't say "will always") defuse a situation. Bad guys are not very smart but they are smart enough to know they don't want to get shot. And, when they see a gun they aren't going to quibble about caliber, whether you have the right kind of bullet, etc. They will back down or get shot. We cannot predict every scenario. I know I'll get rebuttals for that reason but that is how I proceed. For the record, my carry gun is a .22 lr semi-auto, as is my home gun, along with several others.

 

[pendennis]

To each...

his own. But, I would never consider a .22 Magnum for any type of defense, critical or not.

Any .22 caliber requires precise shot placement to be effective; and in the seconds elapsing in a defensive encounter, it will be a shot or two which will make the difference. Try shooting a .22 Magnum through a heavy coat, and see if it's the stopper advertised.

For defensive purposes, the axiom "let the bullet diameter start with a 4" still stands head and shoulders above the rest. 40S&W, .44 Special, .45 Colt, .45ACP, are all better choices. For just over 28 ounces one can carry a S&W 325NG in .45ACP.

Training teaches you to shoot center mass. Center mass for a .22 Magnum is likely not to penetrate the sternum after going through a coat.

As to the BG not wanting to be shot, please don't think in these terms. A criminal doesn't think logically, else he wouldn't be a criminal at the outset. He/She may just challenge you. Do you want to take the chance with your or a loved one's life?

 

[Don P]

Any .22 caliber requires precise shot placement to be effective; and in the seconds elapsing in a defensive encounter, it will be a shot or two which will make the difference. Try shooting a .22 Magnum through a heavy coat, and see if it's the stopper advertised.

Shot placement is required for ANY caliber to be effective. A search on this forum will bring up articles posted by writers about the 22 Magnum. The 22 lr and the 22 magnum love to bounce around after hitting bone and just riping up flesh and internals and has been labeled a "wicked round"

But, I would never consider a .22 Magnum for any type of defense, critical or not.

Should we all assume that you would rather be UNARMED rather that being armed with a 22 magnum?

 

[bikerbill]

Been looking all over for the new Hornady and Speer rounds without much success, even in the big catalogs ... I occasionally carry an NAA Pug when walking my dog on the golf course behind my house, tho I don't think I'd count on it outside that venue ...

 

[SIGSHR]

As Elmer Keith might say "It sure beats your fists!" In No Second Place Winner Bill Jordan advocated a S&W J-frame Airweight in 22 Magnum as a carry piece-that was in 1965 or so.

 

[Jim March]

That new Kel-tec 30rd "redneck poor-man's FN 5.7" has a lot of potential as a low-recoil "granny gun". Assuming it works, and apparently it DOES as long as you feed it good ammo (CCI/Speer recommended) and stack the rims in the mag properly.

 

[Vt.birdhunter]

Chewie146,

TY for the post, hadnt heard about the new loads. Your just cost me about $100
I have 2 NAA revolvers that I love to carry, its great to see new loads like this for folks like me.

.22 maggy in the pocket beats a .45 in the glove box any day.

The NAA .22 magnum, the gun to carry when you dont feel like carrying a gun.

 

[FrankenMauser]

I would definitely prefer the Remington load. ...not so much for bullet choice, but for short barrel performance. The .22 WMR doesn't do well with standard loads, out of common CC barrel lengths (the .22 LR achieves higher velocity than some of the .22 WMR loads, from short barrels).

It's interesting but Speer has a new Gold Dot 22Mag "short barrel" load that looks even better. Better slug, slightly more energy and above all, the shell and primer are from CCI (a Speer subsidiary) and that's the best rimfire ignition you can get.

In .22 WMR, CCI is almost the only rimfire ignition you can get. They manufacture nearly all of the North American brands now.


Just a note, I like to bring up occasionally:
CCI traditionally considers the .22 WMR to be a pistol cartridge, generally optimized for 6-10" barrels.
Winchester traditionally considers the .22 WMR to be a rifle cartridge, generally optimized for 14-16" barrels.
Though some modern loads have departed from the traditional views, that information can be helpful when deciding on a carry load.

 

[iblong]

Has anyone compared these new offering against the Win gray box 40 jhp.

 

[Viper225]

My son has a KelTec, and he likes it. It needs the shells loaded just so so to work. You do not just go thumbing them in like you do your MKIII Ruger. Talk about load it on Sunday, and shoot it all week. It holds 30 rounds in each magazine. It is not a pocket gun. It is the size of most full size centerfire semiauto's.

We shoot a Defensive Pistol Match every month at the Sportsman's Club. Our match is loosely based around the way an IDPA match is done. We shoot 4 stages of 12 rounds for one thing. The one applying here is we have a Rimfire Division. All shooting is on IDPA cardboard silhouettes. What I see is way more accurate shots with a 22 than centerfire. We normally double tap every target. A good shooter on targets 7 yards and closer will have lots of targets with both holes that can be covered by 1 target paster. Most shooters are using a 5.5" Ruger Mk III or a BuckMark. I shoot a 4" S&W 617 and can shoot it that accurately also. A 22 Magnum would be the same story on being shot more accurately on average. I see these rounds used in a 2" or 3" airweight J frame size gun. That is the one carried, and not in the glove box when you need it.

Now if S&W and Ruger would get some2" and 3" J Frame size revolvers out in quamtity that you could afford to buy. Taurus has no problem making a J frame 22 LR or 22 Magnum, and you can get ahold of one of them. All the S&W Rimfire J Frames I see, seem to all be collectors guns by the price. Ruger seems to think 327 and 357 are the only cartridge choices for a small light gun.

 

[natman]

Let's take a look at Hornady's text:

Features:
High Performance Hornady FTX® Bullets

Unaffected by thick and heavy clothing, the 45 gr. FTX bullet delivers superior controlled expansion and terminal ballistics comparable to the 380 Auto Critical Defense load. It offers superb accuracy and devastating terminal performance in a rifle.

Powder

Optimized for short-barreled firearms, the 22 WMR features clean burning propellants with low flash and blast to help protect night vision.

[emphasis added]

Even the manufacturer can't get enthusiastic about its performance IN A PISTOL. It's nice that they've made a load without all the Donner und Blitzen that rifle loads provide when fired from a pistol, but it merely turns a bad choice into a mediocre choice. It's what I'd use if the only choice I had was a 22 mag pistol, but otherwise I'd use something else.

 

[chewie146]

I'm not saying that everyone should carry a .22 magnum, but I think many people have one. I have a .22 magnum NAA, and would love to add a J-frame snubbie to my collection. It will not be my only choice, for sure, but I like choices. I also have a Bond Arms 9mm. Do I carry it? Yup. Do I always carry it? Nope. Most of the time, in the bigger towns and cities, I have a Smith .38 637 PowerPort or an original XD in .40.
For those of you who like anecdotal evidence, a game warden friend of mine loves the .22 magnum for dispatching problem and/or wounded animals. The FMJ rounds will put an elk out with a head shot. The hollowpoint rounds he uses for smaller game, like coyotes. I just really thought it was interesting that manufacturers are at least attempting to make better projectiles for the old .22 magnum. And, if you think about it, these "defense" rounds might make the .22 magnum more effective in hunting certain animals. The better construction makes for mushrooming rather than the traditional "no expansion" or "complete disruption."
I hadn't seen the Gold Dot. That would probably be my choice over the critical defense FTX. I'm a fan of that bullet as well. But, the .38 Critical Defense has proven accurate and reliable in my .38.

 

[pendennis]

Shot placement is required for ANY caliber to be effective. A search on this forum will bring up articles posted by writers about the 22 Magnum. The 22 lr and the 22 magnum love to bounce around after hitting bone and just riping up flesh and internals and has been labeled a "wicked round"

I've read a number of stories, and seen anecdotal evidence of the mess a .22 rimfire can do. However, in a real life scenario, I do not trust my life, nor those I care for and love, to a .22 rimfire.

I agree entirely that shot placement is critical with any caliber. That stated, the odds that one will make exact shot placement are remote. The pucker factor alone negates a lot of training. If I miss center mass by a couple of inches, then my .40+ caliber handgun atones for the sin of an off-center hit.

Should we all assume that you would rather be UNARMED rather that being armed with a 22 magnum?

Never "assume". We all know what that does.

I never go out without my Kimber Ultra Carry, or my S&W 325NG. I've also carried a S&W Model 66 (2 1/2" bbl), but do not feel undergunned. However, a .22 Magnum is not in my carry arsenal, nor on the wish list. I used to own a S&W Model 48, but never considered it for carry. I also own a High Standard DM101 derringer, but it's for plinking fun, and never a serious contender for defensive carry.

 

[Clifford L. Hughes]

Clifford L. Hughes

DeaChewie146:

I agree the the new Hornady .22 Magnum ammo is better for defence then what has been available in the past. However, anything under 38 special/9 mm is marginal for a one shot kill. What good is it if you kill an advisory and he kills you before he dies? Buy a pistol adequate for the job and learn to use it.

Semmper Fi.
Gunnery Sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired

 

[FrankenMauser]

I agree the the new Hornady .22 Magnum ammo is better for defence then what has been available in the past. However, anything under 38 special/9 mm is marginal for a one shot kill. What good is it if you kill an advisory and he kills you before he dies? Buy a pistol adequate for the job and learn to use it.

Not everyone intends to kill, while defending themselves. Some people only wish to incapacitate the aggressor. And... carrying something chambered in 9mm or .38 Special is not always possible. We lead different lives; live in different places; encounter very different things in our everyday lives; and have to abide by a variety of different laws.

"Just use a 9mm" is not a universal answer.

 

[The Red Hot Rider]

hogwash!!

"Training teaches you to shoot center mass. Center mass for a .22 Magnum is likely not to penetrate the sternum after going through a coat."

More untrue words were NEVER spoken. I have photo proof otherwise. I was shooting my wally-world Winchester spinning targets designed for 22lr. They are between 1/4 inch and 1/2 inch thick metal plates. Just for giggles, I shot it with a 22 magnum. I hit the plate, and it didn't even spin, so I thought I had missed it. Upon investigation, not only had I hit the plate, but I had shot so clean a hole through it that you could not have made a cleaner hole with a hand drill! SOOO, I don't think a 22 magnum would have any problem penetrating a coat and a sternum.

Also, I don't think a 22 magnum would be a great PRIMARY defense gun, but if deep, deep concealment is a must, I don't think it would be the worst choice you could make. I have known old timers who poached deer in their younger days, and they preferred the 22 magnum.

 

[Vt.birdhunter]

Anyone know where I can order the Hornady load from? I found the CCIs.

Ive tried the retailer list from their website with no luck, no one has it in stock.