1911 Safeties?

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Capt. Charlie

Moderator Emeritus
I'm fairly new to the world of 1911's and never thought about this before, but how "safe" are the safeties on the 1911? All of my past carry autopistols have been DA, but I bought a Charles Daly EMS (commander) a few months back for CC, and I just can't get used to the idea of walking around cocked and locked. It makes me nervous. I remember a few years ago a friend (who was a little goofy anyhow) got done firing his 1911 and tossed it onto the seat of my other buddy's brand new pickup. It bounced off the seat onto the floor and went boom. Hole in other buddy's new pickup. Other buddy not happy. (yeah, I know; incredibly dumb stunt.) Anyhow, I remember from the service that the 1911 incorporates 4 safeties. How could that happen?) Anybody else suffer from the "Cocked & Locked Jitters"?

By the way, I had problems with the Daly right off the bat, but I dumped the crappy factory mags and bought Chip McCormick match grade mags and it's been a gem ever since.
 
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andymiesha

New member
I have the same fears although I know its unfounded. I have a CHL and I really want to get a Kimber CDP to carry everyday. I have a Tactical pro now but I can't bring myself to carry it in a holster without the leather hammer block. I carry IWB.
My other choice is the G36 but I also have misgivings about carrying it with one in the pipe with only the trigger safety between me and a shredded leg. I even thought about a Para Ord LDA since I am partial to the 1911 platform. I don't see the point in carrying a piece that I would have to work the slide during a confrontation. Perhaps someone would like to alleviate my, and your, fear???? :confused:
 
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Puppy

New member
1911's are designed to be carried in condition 1 (cocked & locked).

The weapon will not fire unless the operator; manually deactivates the thumb safety, palms the grip safety, and then squeezes the trigger.
 
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shield20

New member
A typical newer 1911 will have:

1) Thumb/safety lock
2) Grip Safety
3) Firing Pin Block (off trigger or grip safety)
4) hammer 1/2 notch
5) Trigger pull
5.5) disconnector

A typical revolver:
1) trigger pull
2) firing pin block

Glock
1) FP safety (off trigger)
2) Drop Safety (off trigger)
3) trigger pull
2) trigger safety

My duty Beretta (which I carried with the saftey/decocker off)
1) trigger pull
2) firing pin block

Although trigger pulls on most pieces, other then some Glocks, are a bit heavier, there are more safety devices that must be overcome on the 1911.
Keep your finger off the trigger on ALL of them till your ready to fire - you will be fine. Make a mistake with the trigger, and the 1911 still must be gripped properly, with the safety lock off - really seems safer.
 
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Hawken1911

New member
Look at how prolific Glocks are as concealed carry guns with their 5.5 lb. stock triggers. Anything that would unintentionally depress the trigger and discharge a Glock is most likely going to disengage the safety on the trigger as well. A basic 1911 has a 5-6 lb. trigger pull, in the same ballpark as a Glock, but also has the manual thumb safety and grip safety as added protection. I've carried a 1911 a lot, and have never found the thumb safety accidentally disengaged with any style of carry, including just stuffed in the wasteband. If the thumb safety is disengaged (unlocked), you are still protected by the grip safety, and if you follow all the safety rules you should be just fine anyway. I was never nervous about an accidental discharge from carrying cocked and locked. However, as someone who has been in situations where I've experienced some of the common physco-physiological responses to a threat, including a loss of fine motor skills, I choose not to have to rely on hitting a thumb safety. I now prefer to apply the K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) principle, and all I want to have to do if "it" hits the fan is pull the trigger. But that's just me.
 
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Hawken1911

New member
After re-reading my last post I was concerned I wasn't clear. I'm not saying I now carry my 1911 with the safety off; I'm saying I now prefer DAO handguns for carry.
 
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Ozzieman

New member
If you dont feel safe caring C and C then dont.

My wife caries a Glock 26 and she will only carry it with an empty chamber and she has practiced racking the slide so I feel that she is ok with that. I would rather her carry an empty chamber than no gun at all so its the best for her.
As far as safe 1911's there only as safe as the nut behind them and I am sorry to say that your friend throwing a loaded gun around got what he deserved, he is just lucky that he dosent have a record from accidently killing some one being careless and reckless with a loaded gun.
What your carring has so many safeties that the only way it can go off is with the safe off, grip squeezed and the trigger pulled.
That is unless you drop it.
 
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Dave Sample

Moderator
The military did not carry them Cocked and Locked. They carried them with full magazines and empty chambers unless they were in a firefight. Then they had a rifle or sub-gun.
I have carried cocked and locked for over 50 years without a problem. I am also very familar with 1911's and have been since I was a teenager in the Navy. They are not for the faint hearted and many people would be well served to stay away from them. These people need Glocks or Wheelguns (Read : Revolvers.) I carry both from time to time and never felt handicapped with a good Model 19, 625, Model 57 or Model 66 on my hip. I have leather for all of them, or used to.
Guns are dangerous if they are in someone's hands. All guns are. Period. I could put a 1911 on the coffee table for 100 years and it would never hurt anyone until someone picks it up. If you are uncomfortable with any mode of carry, some education can solve that problem. Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, and other training academy's can teach people to be safe, not sorry. There are usually people at any shooting range who know how to handle XYZ firearm, too. Most folks that carry 1911's are comfortable with Cocked and Locked but if you aren't, don't do it.!
 
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Hunter Customs

New member
Some of us military carried cocked and locked, at the time I never used the flap holster either. However when I was in the state side military I carried the way Dave said, hammer down on an empty chamber.
I've carried a 1911 and still do, many a mile for a lot of years cocked and locked, I've never had an AD.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
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Capt. Charlie

Moderator Emeritus
Sorry, guess my post wasn't all that clear. I'm not new to handguns at all. I've been active, full time LE for 27 years, have shot PPC since the late 70's, and have tinkered with local, small time IPSC for about 10 yrs. But all of my handguns have been either wheelguns or DA autopistols. I guess I had the same "Willies" when my dept. replaced our Smith 5906's with Glock 17's. I guess it's just what you're comfortable with. (And Dave, you're right. I was a Navy Gunner's Mate in the late 60's, early 70's, and the only time we carried the 1911 was on quarterdeck watch or on shore patrol overseas, and that was with an empy chamber.) What I was concerned about was the reliability of the safeties. In spite of the misconception, I think you answered my question. Listening to some of you guys that have carried the 1911 cocked & locked for decades without mishap calms me somewhat. I guess the "restwhat" will just have to come with experience. :D
 
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Handy

Moderator
There's two kinds of "safeties". One is the way the gun and you work together to prevent ADs. Simply holding a 1911 defeats the grip safety, so it comes down to whether the manual safety is on, and where your finger is. If you drop the safety on the draw and let that finger wander - bang, since the trigger is fairly light and short.

The other safety a gun can have is what guards it against firing when you have an internal failure. On a series 70, the only internal failure that can result in firing is a sear breakage. Since none of the safeties actually block the hammer, a broken sear will let the hammer fall, causing an AD. The half cock notch is there to prevent this, as long as enough of the sear remains. The series 80 guns don't have a true half cock, but are unable to fire unless the trigger is compressed - a better measure against failure.

Given the above, I believe a very good sear should be used with series 70 guns. The rather unexpected way MIM parts fail could be a very lethal combination in a 70 gun, if that's what the sear is made of.
 
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Dave Sample

Moderator
Handy has a good point about the importance of the '70 series sear, but it is also true of any 1911. The Star thumb safety's do block the hammer and are also able to hold the hammer down with an empty chamber. I am not sure why their designers made them this way, but they did. I don't believe that Colt started using MIM parts until the '80 series 1911's with the firing pin safety which keeps the firing pin locked until the trigger is pulled back to a certain point where a little lever in the frame next to the hammer, raises a plunger in the slide up .100 of an inch and releases the firing pin. Many people like this feature. I don't. I have always thought that Colt has had the best internal parts going for a factory gun. I like MIM, too, which has gotten an undeserved bad rap on the Internet due to parts problems that have largely been solved. I like Colt Sears and Disconnectors with that neat golden hue and find them very hard and very durable. I have not used them much, but have been forced to tune a few '80 series Colt 1911's for people that I could not say no to. Handy has another good point. The way you work together with the gun. Gun safety lies between the ears of the Shooter. Guns are dangerous because they are meant to be. The 1911 safety's are very good and very easy to undo. It is the fastest pistol to get into action that exists in the hands of a trained shooter. I really like them! '70 series guns are erratic in several ways. they made some great ones, some bad ones, and a lot of good ones in those years.
 
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Tim R

New member
I carried a 1911 about ten years on duty. I never had a AD or ND with it. I have carried a Glock system the rest of the time. Currently I use a G-35 which is the same size as a 1911 by the way. I also shot a few 45 rounds down range during my Navy days at PacFlt, AltFlt and all Navy while in the service with a 1911. I was there to shoot a M-14 however.

While I was carrying the 1911, it was cocked and locked and the hammer never once fell without the trigger being pulled. I know the feeling though as when I first started in L/E there was the thought in the back of my mind that I had a cocked and locked 45 on my hip that could go off any second. I was always mindful that it was there and protected it from bangs and bumps the best I could. Then slowly over the years, it became just another tool....I knew it was there, cocked and locked but it became a non issue.

As with any firearm I found with the 1911 and Glock that if you put your finger in the trigger guard and press the trigger they do have a habit of going off. With the Glock, the firing pin is moved back to the firing pos. as the trigger is being pulled. There is no way a Glock can fire without the trigger being pulled.

I too have a friend who claims his 1911 went off while in his holster as he was sitting in his truck. I wasn't there and will never know for sure what happened, but I believe there might have been some adult beverages involved. I got to inspect the suspect pistol on another matter and found his Springer to be grossly mistreated, dirty and full of rust. I didn't fire it but it appeared to function OK.
 
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Capt. Charlie

Moderator Emeritus
Tim R

Thanks for the encouragement. By the way...

All the really big guns are in the Navy
Click to expand...

Like that signature! I spent my Navy time working on 5" 54's (and working... and working... and working...) Maybe part of the reason I'm nervous about mechanical failures in the 1911 is because our 5" 's spent more time in CASREP than online :rolleyes:
 
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DevilsJohnson

New member
I've had 1911's most my life and have never seen the bevertail safty or the slide safty not work. I carry my springfield cockedd and locked all the time...never give it a second thought. I'm sure they can malfunction but I've not been a witness to it as of yet. lol..THough anyone tossing their loaded wepon around to begin with more than likely had done some damage to it and that prolly caused the safty (safties) to not work properly. People likethat are why we get stupid cun laws. It takes one uneducated man to cause a gun rights firestorm. :(
 
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Hunter Customs

New member
Capt Charlie,
Thanks for the compliment on my shooting. That table was shot in 2.7 seconds and the time did not stop until my last pin was on the ground. On a buzz timer that would have been close to a 2 second table.
I loved shooting those pins.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
 
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Capt. Charlie

Moderator Emeritus
I see I'm going to have to look more closely at pin shooting. Recently our dept. range master started ending our semi-annual qualifications with a pin and plate fun shoot. They even give a trophy plaque to the winners. It's amazing how half the guys at qualification time went from "moan 'n' groan" to actually looking forward to it :D Of course they still grumble that I'm cheating using those flying ash trays instead of their Glock 17's :rolleyes: .

Dave, I wonder if it'd be more fun to shoot 'em in my birthday suit?? :D :D
 
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