Steve in Allentown
New member
You may find this LINK to be of interest.
1911 jam
- Thread starter chris in va
- Start date
chris in va
New member
I finally got the new plate installed, would this amount of rotation be acceptable?
https://ibb.co/9ZDjcN1
https://ibb.co/hmftwv0
It's better than the original but not much.
https://ibb.co/9ZDjcN1
https://ibb.co/hmftwv0
It's better than the original but not much.
Steve in Allentown
New member
Ideally, you don't want any rotation or fore and aft movement.
The drawing below shows an extractor that clocks. The view is looking at the breechface from the muzzle.
The red half moon shape is the extractor. The straight edge is the tensioning wall against which the case rim bears as the barrel goes in and out of battery. As the barrel comes out of battery the back of the barrel drops down taking the fired case/loaded round with it. As the case rim travels down the extractor's tensioning wall it will cause the extractor to rotate unless the firing pin stop is preventing it from doing so. In the scenario shown below the case will fall free of the extractor.
So, how much rotation is acceptable? None in my book.
Honestly, I'd fit another FPS. Fit it snugly to the slide first. Once it's a snug fit in the slide don't remove any more material from the FPS. Next fit the extractor to the FPS. You may have to remove material from the front or back wall to allow the FPS to fit. If the distance from the extractor hook to the breechface is greater than .075", file the front wall to move the extractor hook back toward the breechface. Do not remove too much material. There is to be zero fore and aft movement of the extractor when you finish.
You will likely have to remove material from firing pin stop slot bottom wall. Again, sneak up on the fit. This surface is responsible for preventing the extractor from clocking so be careful not to take off more than is needed.
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If your gun has the original Springfield extractor, I would buy a brand new Wilson Combat Bullet proof extractor and maybe a new firing pin stop. I would make sure the extractor is adjusted properly (not holding a loaded round too tight, but tight enough, per instructions from Wilson Combat and other sources, and use a good magazine. And the gun will probably run fine. Just my opinion.
In the past, I have had two 1911's with prior long history's (Long Track Records of running pretty much at 100% for thousands of rounds of grungy handloads) all of a sudden start jamming. One was a Series 70 Colt, which I had used in competition for over ten years and the other was a Springfield Lightweight 5-inch gun, which had experienced moderate use. Bought guns were used with mostly Wilson 7D mags, and 200 gr cast lead semi-wadcutters, with a few commercial hardball and hollow-point rounds mixed in.
Bottom line, I would ditch the stock extractor, and install a Willson Bulletproof, because I consider it to be one of the best extractors out there and I would be surprised if it didn't solve your problems.
In the past, I have had two 1911's with prior long history's (Long Track Records of running pretty much at 100% for thousands of rounds of grungy handloads) all of a sudden start jamming. One was a Series 70 Colt, which I had used in competition for over ten years and the other was a Springfield Lightweight 5-inch gun, which had experienced moderate use. Bought guns were used with mostly Wilson 7D mags, and 200 gr cast lead semi-wadcutters, with a few commercial hardball and hollow-point rounds mixed in.
Bottom line, I would ditch the stock extractor, and install a Willson Bulletproof, because I consider it to be one of the best extractors out there and I would be surprised if it didn't solve your problems.
Steve in Allentown
New member
Good advice although I greatly prefer EGW extractors.
I humbly recommend reading this extractor fitting tutorial before beginning the process.
1911Tuner said:
I’m going to assume this is a newish, or at least unmodified Citadel 5”. So, I’m going to assume it has no extractor tuning done and the bottom bevels are the normal nearly nothing level because it cannot form well in the process they use.
You suggested clocking due to off location slide hole….it may be, but those holes are drilled, I believe, so I’m going to guess it is reasonably accurate. The FPS and Extractor, I believe, are formed and they want to use as formed. My guess is the fit between extractor and FPS are a bit of a tolerance dump zone and the fit is just too loose.
Last, I would be money that the spring tension in the extractor is completely untuned.
My temporary fix would be to adjust the extractor to have light tension on the case head while still feeding 100%. Try this by comparing (tension) detent feeling on 2 guns….ideally 2 1911’s, but any is ok. You want light tension against the case rim, a loaded round should just barely stay put with a light shake. Last check feeding from the rear. Is the extractor rotating in the hole? If so, this likely won’t work.
The permanent solution is to properly fit a new firing pin stop and extractor.
What do you think @1911tuner? Could this work?
Here is a firing pin stop with some steel to fit https://www.egwguns.com/oversized-firing-pin-stop-series-70-45-acp-blue
If you do have some dimensional flaw in the location of the extractor tunnel,
Here is an EGW extractor that has not been slotted for the firing pin stop.
You can cut it to get tight clocking with just about any tolerance stackup.
https://www.egwguns.com/gi-extractor-improved-45-acp-series-70-blue-1
When a flat is used to clock a round piece, it does not take much clearance to allow clocking error.
There are a few skilled and patient individuals who can file such surfaces to be flat,square,and to dimension with less than .001 clearance to minimize clocking error.
Most of the time.
The rest of us might do it three times and still have extractor rotation.
Yeah,I know. Should be a simple little job.....
But I'll do better by taking precise measurements,(pin gages, adjustable parallels,etc. And don't forget the hole in the FP stop needs to stay centered in the slide so the FP is free. Then I cheat and use a mill or surface grinder.
Thats one way to get the slot just right in the extractor,too.
They are not complex cuts, but getting the measurements right ,making a good sketch, and cutting just the right amount of steel off takes some fair to middling toolmaker skills. Mostly measuring and making the sketch.
Given the cost of parts,paying a 1911 smith or good machinist to do the job may be money well spent.
If you do have some dimensional flaw in the location of the extractor tunnel,
Here is an EGW extractor that has not been slotted for the firing pin stop.
You can cut it to get tight clocking with just about any tolerance stackup.
https://www.egwguns.com/gi-extractor-improved-45-acp-series-70-blue-1
When a flat is used to clock a round piece, it does not take much clearance to allow clocking error.
There are a few skilled and patient individuals who can file such surfaces to be flat,square,and to dimension with less than .001 clearance to minimize clocking error.
Most of the time.
The rest of us might do it three times and still have extractor rotation.
Yeah,I know. Should be a simple little job.....
But I'll do better by taking precise measurements,(pin gages, adjustable parallels,etc. And don't forget the hole in the FP stop needs to stay centered in the slide so the FP is free. Then I cheat and use a mill or surface grinder.
Thats one way to get the slot just right in the extractor,too.
They are not complex cuts, but getting the measurements right ,making a good sketch, and cutting just the right amount of steel off takes some fair to middling toolmaker skills. Mostly measuring and making the sketch.
Given the cost of parts,paying a 1911 smith or good machinist to do the job may be money well spent.
Wow ... OP's got problems. 
I've had no jam-skis at all with my Colt series 70. It's still original, just as it came outta da box.
Dudes who mod their 1911s willy-nilly have all sorts a problems.
Leave it stock, unless it's a Kimber. Then send it back.
Why? 'Cause it's junk.
Word to the wise.
I've had no jam-skis at all with my Colt series 70. It's still original, just as it came outta da box.
Dudes who mod their 1911s willy-nilly have all sorts a problems.
Leave it stock, unless it's a Kimber. Then send it back.
Why? 'Cause it's junk.
Word to the wise.
chris in va
New member
Don't get me started on my 97b that's currently broken. Again.
I got the chance to do a 'shake test' with the slide off and an empty case. I couldn't get the case to shake out of the extractor no matter what. It was tight.
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
Possibly TOO tight -- but I used to do the test with a dummy round, not an empty case.
Then I started using the Weigand extractor tension tester kit and never looked back.
Then I started using the Weigand extractor tension tester kit and never looked back.