1911 Bullet Preference

[Aguila Blanca]

Aguila, are you still using Golden Sabers? If so, can you share your load data with me?

So you are asking about bullets, and not loaded ammo?

Unfortunately, I have no load data for Golden Saber bullets as reloading components. I've done the research and, as someone who is extremely risk-averse, I don't carry reloads for self-defense. I'm simply not prepared to take the chance that if I ever have to use my gun for self defense, it will be such a clear-cut case that nothing will be called into question and gunshot residue (GSR) won't play a role in the evidence. My carry ammunition is factory Golden Saber, 230-grain, standard pressure. I reload for the range and for competition only.

I'll try and trade other shooters ammo the next time I'm at the range and keep a record of my groupings..

IMHO, the group size is less important than function. This is about self defense. Aside from the statistics that show something like 90% (or more) of self defense shooting occur at distances of 21 feet or less, there's also the consideration that if the distance gets much beyond 21 feet (or maybe 30 feet, which is still only 10 yards), unless the other person is shooting at you it may be difficult in court to justify using your gun. And I submit that pretty much any ammunition is going to produce decent self-defense groups at distances of 10 yards and less.

 

[44 AMP]

First, I'd point out that the average American city street is about 40 feet wide. And many have room for a row of parked cars on either side, on top of that.

Second, distance to the opponent matters most in gun vs edge/impact weapons, and more in the minds of a jury than in reality. If someone is shooting at you, how far away they are for justifiable self defense becomes a moot point.

The old saying "if the enemy's in range, so are you" is not just a cute saying...

 

[BJung]

I might be more afraid of a person with a knife more than a handgun. I've cut myself more than once and and aware of how effective broadheads are. I don't know if the training was debunked but I was once introduced to the sock drop test were a partner taps your shoulder and runs, dropping a sock of dirt every time he heard your gun fire. This represented the distance a determined assailant could cover.

My .45 is one of my other handguns. For home protection I rely on my .357 with factory wadcutters. But if I every had to use my .45, I want to be prepared.

 

[totaldla]

I own a Kimber Pro Carry II. I do have a box of factory Federal 165gr bullets I keep for home and personal defense and also have 230gr RN and 200LSWC reloads. I want to reload self-defense loads though so I'm wondering if I should choose the classic 230gr or a lighter bullet. Thanks for the Wilson article. I will look for it. But, what advantages was there for those of you choosing the 200gr bullet over the 230? What did you read our find that had you choose the lighter over the heavier bullet? Are there feeding issues? The primary source I have to compare bullets are Lucky Gunner. Are there other articles you recommend me reading or seeing?

I went with 185gr because I like the feel of the recoil pulse and because I got reliable expansion with bullets moving at least 1000fps. But that was 30 years ago. Bullets are built better and don't have to be driven so hard to open up.

 

[Unclenick]

I buy the 230-grain Federal HST cartridges for my full-size 1911's. They were available at a discount through Expert Voice last year, so I bought enough to do comparisons to work up a 230-grain same-felt-recoil-same-POI load for practice and to keep a couple of boxes aside. The mimic load turned out to be some Hornady 230-grain TC ENC's I bought a few thousand of years ago, but didn't use up. Those and some Longshot powder I had got to try out in a goose gun load, and voilà!

 

[USSR]

Aguila, are you still using Golden Sabers? If so, can you share your load data with me?

With burbank_jung asking for load data, I'd say it's a safe assumption that he is talking about bullets and reloading.

Don

 

[Unclenick]

Looks like I focused on the questions by others. I've removed my terminology discussion.

 

[zeke]

A bullet that will function 100 % in the intended firearm. Spent years loading the 230 xtp to plus p velocitys. Accurate, reliable, likely to expand to full bullet dia easily, easy to get good case neck tension to limit bullet set back and get some added penetration. Have lately started using 210 wfp coated at more sedate velocities. Mainly for better control in lighter carry 1911's. Speer 230 gn sb gd's might be another good choice.

 

[BJung]

After reading this thread along with others on the web, I have a good idea of my choices. I now have a question about powder but will open a new thread.

 

[HiBC]

O hair

"...should not use hand-loaded ammunition..." That's was started by Massad Ayoob, years and years ago. Any good defense lawyer would be able to blow the argument that hand loaded ammo is somehow evil, out of the building.

I realize you live in another Country than USA,and they may not be friendly to self defense handguns.

Massad Ayoob did write about it. I actually read and comprehended what he had to say.
The point is NOT "Those sick twisted handloaders want to load bullets that kill deader,like Dum-Dums"
FWIW,I don;t know of any case where handloads are less legal to use for SD.

The point IS you may have a dead body to explain with no witnesses.Think Zimmerman/Martin.Or,as in Ferguson,lying witnesses.

Forensic evidence,such as gun shot residue,may corroborate your story.

If you use factory loads, off the shelf ammo may be tested to provide admissable evidence.

Your handloads? probably not.

Sometimes,O'heir,the way you confidently put out wrong information could do harm.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

230gr. Hornady Critical Defense.

 

[Unclenick]

HiBC has it right about Ayoob's argument. It isn't a matter of what is or isn't legal to use for self-defense. It's about forensic techs who don't know or care enough about firearms misunderstanding something they can't replicate exactly with commercial loads. They might replicate it with your handloads, but can't prove the handload you used is the same as their sample. This can result in unnecessarily raised suspicions, especially if you have a hot dog anti-gun prosecutor. In Ayoob's examples, attorneys have gotten some of these sorts of misinterpretations tossed out, but not all, and why would you want the expense of defending yourself in court and risking a bad outcome if you can avoid it in the first place for the cost of a box of ammunition?