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1911 Bullet Preference
- Thread starter BJung
- Start date
Aguila Blanca
Staff
What size 1911 do you have? If you have a Commander, I wouldn't go with anybody's "short barrel" version. Those are for 3-1/2" and shorter barrels, as I understand it.
FWIW, are you aware of our moderator, Frank Ettin's, fairly detailed discussion of why we should not use hand-loaded ammunition for self defense? Or are you talking about factory ammunition rather than "bullets"?
FWIW, are you aware of our moderator, Frank Ettin's, fairly detailed discussion of why we should not use hand-loaded ammunition for self defense? Or are you talking about factory ammunition rather than "bullets"?
This is a hellofa good load. I use it in my Sig 1911 RCS, a 4" bbl'd, officer model type pistol that's my go to town gun. A lighter bullet might make 2nd shot/3rd shot defensive scenarios easier...or not. The HST bullets feed in every length of bbl. on a 1911 that I've tried...4" to 5". HTH's Rod230 gr Federal HST.
Jim Watson
New member
I use the Hornady 200 gr XTP standard velocity; a 200 at 900 like Mr Browning said in 1905. I could buy more power but not less recoil.
For a short gun - shorter than Commander length - I prefer 185grs.
It used to be nothing but 230s for me, but I read a good piece by Bill Wilson, in which he argues that small 1911s should use lighter bullets, not for ballistics concerns, but because the lighter-bulleted rounds are easier for the magazine to handle; the slide is moving very fast, springs are running at the edge of reliability in the interest of compactness.
It used to be nothing but 230s for me, but I read a good piece by Bill Wilson, in which he argues that small 1911s should use lighter bullets, not for ballistics concerns, but because the lighter-bulleted rounds are easier for the magazine to handle; the slide is moving very fast, springs are running at the edge of reliability in the interest of compactness.
From your readings across the web, what weight bullet have you chose for self-defense purposes for your 45acp 1911?
Made my choice decades before "the web" existed. My .45acp GOVERNMENT MODEL gets 230gr service ammo (or lead bullet equivalent) or 200gr LSWC for target work.
I run other loads in my Browning BDA .45
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I wish the OP would clarify his question. The question asks about "bullets," and I'm not aware of any manufacturer offering short barrel bullets as reloading components. I want to know if the question is about bullets, or factory-loaded ammunition.
I own a Kimber Pro Carry II. I do have a box of factory Federal 165gr bullets I keep for home and personal defense and also have 230gr RN and 200LSWC reloads. I want to reload self-defense loads though so I'm wondering if I should choose the classic 230gr or a lighter bullet. Thanks for the Wilson article. I will look for it. But, what advantages was there for those of you choosing the 200gr bullet over the 230? What did you read our find that had you choose the lighter over the heavier bullet? Are there feeding issues? The primary source I have to compare bullets are Lucky Gunner. Are there other articles you recommend me reading or seeing?
"...should not use hand-loaded ammunition..." That's was started by Massad Ayoob, years and years ago. Any good defense lawyer would be able to blow the argument that hand loaded ammo is somehow evil, out of the building.
Anyway, if you are not reloading, you must try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your pistol shoots best. Cycling will probably not be an issue, but that matters too. Mine, not a compact, cycles most reliably with 230 grain RN's or Flat Points.
"...short barrel .45 bullets..." A barrel doesn't care what bullet goes through it.
Anyway, if you are not reloading, you must try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your pistol shoots best. Cycling will probably not be an issue, but that matters too. Mine, not a compact, cycles most reliably with 230 grain RN's or Flat Points.
"...short barrel .45 bullets..." A barrel doesn't care what bullet goes through it.
Yep...pretty good advice by Mr. Ayood...and BTW, those lawyers who are defending a self-defense shooting don't come cheap...I'd stay with factory ammunition, comparable to what the local LEO's are armed with, and save myself some expensive minutes ($500/hour at pre-trial rates) with my attorney. YMMv, and good luck, Rod"...should not use hand-loaded ammunition..." That's was started by Massad Ayoob, years and years ago. Any good defense lawyer would be able to blow the argument that hand loaded ammo is somehow evil, out of the building.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4600076&postcount=71T. O'Heir said:"...should not use hand-loaded ammunition..." That's was started by Massad Ayoob, years and years ago. Any good defense lawyer would be able to blow the argument that hand loaded ammo is somehow evil, out of the building.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4600667&postcount=109
The original M1911 and M1911A1 were designed and manufactured to reliably fire and cycle military round-nose ball ammunition. Many older 1911s will not reliably function with many types of JHP projectiles, most notable those shaped more like a truncated cone rather than those with a rounded ogive. Long before the advent of short-barrel ammunition, I settled on Remingtom Golden Saber because it cycles reliably in every 1911 I own.T. O'Heir said:Anyway, if you are not reloading, you must try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your pistol shoots best. Cycling will probably not be an issue, but that matters too. Mine, not a compact, cycles most reliably with 230 grain RN's or Flat Points.
The barrel doesn't care, but the target cares. The purpose for using hollow-point ammunition is to have the bullet expend as it enters the target medium. That requires a minimum velocity and, when fired through guns with short barrels, many "standard" JHP rounds simply don't carry enough energy to assure reliable expansion because the ammunition doesn't have enough dwell time in the short barrel to get up to the speed necessary for reliable expansion.T. O'Heir said:"...short barrel .45 bullets..." A barrel doesn't care what bullet goes through it.
The comparatively recent "short barrel" ammunition is more than just a special bullet. It's a combination of a bullet that's designed to expand at a lower velocity, loaded with faster powders in order to achieve somewhat higher velocity than "standard" ammunition when fired through a short barrel, thus (hopefully) ensuring reliable expansion together with sufficient terminal energy to be effective.
Aguila, are you still using Golden Sabers? If so, can you share your load data with me?
This might come off dumb but I once watched this youtube video of a surveillance camera showing the assailant shot multiple times with a 9mm. I said to myself, "OMG" I don't what that to happen to me! I could imagine a hardball 9mm having this effect. What would you say the effect of a much heavier 45-230gr hardball round would be? The advantage of the hollow point is that the bullet becomes a larger caliber projectile causing more damage with the help of the additional energy than just travelling straight through.
Thanks for the factory ammo test idea. I'll try and trade other shooters ammo the next time I'm at the range and keep a record of my groupings..
This might come off dumb but I once watched this youtube video of a surveillance camera showing the assailant shot multiple times with a 9mm. I said to myself, "OMG" I don't what that to happen to me! I could imagine a hardball 9mm having this effect. What would you say the effect of a much heavier 45-230gr hardball round would be? The advantage of the hollow point is that the bullet becomes a larger caliber projectile causing more damage with the help of the additional energy than just travelling straight through.
Thanks for the factory ammo test idea. I'll try and trade other shooters ammo the next time I'm at the range and keep a record of my groupings..
Aguila, are you still using Golden Sabers? If so, can you share your load data with me?
This might come off dumb but I once watched this youtube video of a surveillance camera showing the assailant shot multiple times with a 9mm. I said to myself, "OMG" I don't what that to happen to me! I could imagine a hardball 9mm having this effect. What would you say the effect of a much heavier 45-230gr hardball round would be? The advantage of the hollow point is that the bullet becomes a larger caliber projectile causing more damage with the help of the additional energy than just travelling straight through.
Thanks for the factory ammo test idea. I'll try and trade other shooters ammo the next time I'm at the range and keep a record of my groupings..
I have nothing against the 45 ACP and fully encourage you to carry a firearm in that caliber. I do want to point out even the 45 ACP with hollow points isn’t the hammer of Thor. People have survived multiple shots with the 45 ACP as well. If you’re expecting some 45 ACP loading with the right bullet to be a one shot stop guarantee, just realize that doesn’t happen.
https://www.police1.com/officer-sho...5-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job-clGBbLYpnqqHxwMq/
To me the biggest advantage of hollow points is a potential reduction in over penetration. While some hollow points do absolutely lead to impressive expansion, I.E. the HST doubles in diameter in certain tests, I don’t know how much I’d bank on the additional diameter turning a non incapacitating shot into an incapacitating shot. Shot placement seems to be key regardless.
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Unless the OP clarifies otherwise, my presumption was that the OP used the term "Bullets" instead of rounds or cartridges in the same way some folks use the term "clips" instead of magazines. No biggie.
That said, I use the same 230gr JHP loads in all of my .45's, regardless of barrel length. My .45's have barrel lengths of 3.25", 3.5", 4.25", 4.5" & 5".
Presently, that means (in no particular order) Remington Golden Sabre, Winchester T-Series and Federal HST. I have some older style JHP's, but prefer to save those older loads for the range or as a last resort (run low on other desired loads).
In previous years (80's & 90's) I used to use other loads, including some various +P offerings, but nowadays I prefer the more modern lines made by the big name makers.
I don't have "brand loyalty" to any one particular manufacturer, as all of the more modern JHP designs seem to offer similar "performance" in the standardized ballistic testing the manufacturers use. Also, not being married to just one ammo brand/line means I'm less likely to be subject to market demand and availability fluctuations.
That said, I use the same 230gr JHP loads in all of my .45's, regardless of barrel length. My .45's have barrel lengths of 3.25", 3.5", 4.25", 4.5" & 5".
Presently, that means (in no particular order) Remington Golden Sabre, Winchester T-Series and Federal HST. I have some older style JHP's, but prefer to save those older loads for the range or as a last resort (run low on other desired loads).
In previous years (80's & 90's) I used to use other loads, including some various +P offerings, but nowadays I prefer the more modern lines made by the big name makers.
I don't have "brand loyalty" to any one particular manufacturer, as all of the more modern JHP designs seem to offer similar "performance" in the standardized ballistic testing the manufacturers use. Also, not being married to just one ammo brand/line means I'm less likely to be subject to market demand and availability fluctuations.
44caliberkid
New member
Hornady 185 grain XTP, but only because for some reason I have a 1000 of them. Seriously, for the carry guns, Remington Golden Saber 230 JHP.