1911 45 auto

TunnelRat

New member
The reality today is that cheap labor just means the guy putting the raw frame into the CNC machine in Turkey gets paid less than the guy putting the raw frame into a CNC machine in West Hartford or Pigeon Forge gets paid.


A while back I picked up a Century Arms AP5. This is an MP5 clone made in Turkey by MKE on what is supposedly HK tooling. A stamped firearm on licensed German machinery. I was told online that, “how could it go wrong”? That firearm had loads of issues, including a rear sight that was attached so poorly that the firearm couldn’t even be zeroed. Century ended up sending me a replacement firearm and that was great.

Now by my understanding stampings are more complicated than CNC machining, even if an older technology. Even still my guess is the machinists and assemblers at HK learned some things over the decades, which is likely in part why my HK magazines will feed hollowpoints and my MKE magazines won’t. I also had friends that worked on the manufacturing end of SIG Sauer, Inc. doing CNC and I heard plenty of stories of entire batches of parts, thousands at a time, being tossed due to someone screwing up. I think CNC and other automated methods help reduce the possibility of certain problems, but even then experience still matters.
 

44 AMP

Staff
heard plenty of stories of entire batches of parts, thousands at a time, being tossed due to someone screwing up. I think CNC and other automated methods help reduce the possibility of certain problems, but even then experience still matters.

When things were made with more human hands on involvement lots of errors happened. People do make mistakes. However, in the old days, with parts made or finished by hand, someone screwing up something generally affected smaller numbers of parts, and often only the stuff that guy made, that shift.

Today, a screw up in a computer value setting can run until someone checks the finished product and thousands of units may have been made to the wrong specs before someone catches it.

Many folks in management I've met or worked under over the years actually believe that written procedures and automated equipment allow trained monkeys to produce a good product and experienced, skilled workers are an expensive thing of the past.

Good operators know more than just how to feed in stock and push the run button. The best operators learn their machines, how they work, and why they work the way they do, and what to do when they don't work correctly.

There's an old joke about that, but still true, about how a guy automates his factory and maked his widgits without any of the former workers. Things are humming along and he's making money hand over fist.
Then the machines stop. Nothing he does gets them running again.

He calls the repair guy (one of the replaced workers). Guy comes in, checks things out, pushes one button and it starts running again. Owner is happy until he gets the bill.

Restart autofactory...$5000

Owner is upset!! says he won't pay, its ridiculous! All you did was push one button!!

Repair guy takes back the bill and gives him another one.

Restart autofactory.....$10,000
pushing one button..........$1
Knowing what button to push ......$9,999
:D
 

jar

New member
When things were made with more human hands on involvement lots of errors happened. People do make mistakes. However, in the old days, with parts made or finished by hand, someone screwing up something generally affected smaller numbers of parts, and often only the stuff that guy made, that shift.

Today, a screw up in a computer value setting can run until someone checks the finished product and thousands of units may have been made to the wrong specs before someone catches it.

Many folks in management I've met or worked under over the years actually believe that written procedures and automated equipment allow trained monkeys to produce a good product and experienced, skilled workers are an expensive thing of the past.

Good operators know more than just how to feed in stock and push the run button. The best operators learn their machines, how they work, and why they work the way they do, and what to do when they don't work correctly.

There's an old joke about that, but still true, about how a guy automates his factory and maked his widgits without any of the former workers. Things are humming along and he's making money hand over fist.
Then the machines stop. Nothing he does gets them running again.

He calls the repair guy (one of the replaced workers). Guy comes in, checks things out, pushes one button and it starts running again. Owner is happy until he gets the bill.

Restart autofactory...$5000

Owner is upset!! says he won't pay, its ridiculous! All you did was push one button!!

Repair guy takes back the bill and gives him another one.

Restart autofactory.....$10,000
pushing one button..........$1
Knowing what button to push ......$9,999
:D
True story.

Long long ago in a land far far away I was selling computer systems and one client was a bank. They called and printer was not working. The person who called said he was tired of us coming out to do about a minute of work and sending him a big bill.

Came out and he showed me the printer and pointed out that it was still plugged in to the wall socket but would not turn on. I asked if they had moved the printer and he said no, well just to the other side of the desk.

Sure enough when I looked behind the desk there was the other end of the power cord on the floor, now about three inches short of the new position.

I gave him two options; I could take it to the shop and find a longer power cord which would be two service call charges and about a week to order the longer power cord or he could pay our normal single service call charge and I'd even move the printer back to the other side of the desk and plug it back in for him.

He wrote a nasty letter to my boss.
 

Hawg

New member
Guys, these guns aren’t worth my time discussing.

Then don't. We're not forcing you to discuss them. You keep coming back and doing nothing but praising high end guns and a lot of us couldn't care less about them. I know you're going to come back and say something snarky. You just can't help yourself.
 

bac1023

New member
Then don't. We're not forcing you to discuss them. You keep coming back and doing nothing but praising high end guns and a lot of us couldn't care less about them. I know you're going to come back and say something snarky. You just can't help yourself.
Cause the high end models are where it’s at. I always advise people to buy at least a Dan Wesson or choose another platform. You can get a lot of nice pistols under $1000-$1500. The 1911 just isn’t one of them.

I didn’t enter the thread to talk about Turkeys, but my comment ruffled some feathers. It’s all good though. I do admit they’re more for the money than some of the lower end American models.
 

44 AMP

Staff
27 1911A1 pattern pistols in one picture, 12 in another, and not a single one is a gun I would own.

Race guns and "space" guns just aren't my thing. Whale tails and speed bumps annoy me. I don't play speed games, and many of the currently popular "bells & whistles" features are things that I don't want, or need, and some of them detract from the gun, for me.

Do your thing, enjoy it, that's what hobbies are for.
 

bac1023

New member
18 1911A1 pattern pistols in one picture, 12 in another, and not a single one is a gun I would own.

Race guns and "space" guns just aren't my thing. Whale tails and speed bumps annoy me. I don't play speed games, and many of the currently popular "bells & whistles" features are things that I don't want, or need, and some of them detract from the gun, for me.

Do your thing, enjoy it, that's what hobbies are for.

Might want to recount those ;)

Actually I have a lot of traditional stuff too, but those don’t shoot like these do. You want the best shooting semi auto pistols, this is what to look for. Not saying they’re for everyone, but they are the best shooters in the world, bar none.
 

bac1023

New member
Neither would I. The OP stated he probably couldn't afford a Kimber or Colt. That makes all of this Ludicrous.

I was answering questions about high end 1911’s and decided to illustrate with some of mine. Nothing ludicrous about it.

…and, no, they aren’t for everyone and were never intended to be. We don’t live in a communist country (at least not yet). Plus, as Dirty Harry once said, “a man’s got to know his limitations.”

That’s why there’s 1911’s for all different means and skill sets.
 

Lurch37

New member
Just yesterday I was at my daughters and shot her hubby's new 1911 45, really enjoyed shooting it and it was quite accurate. Now I want 1, what brand should I get, I am fond of Kimber and Ruger, probably cant afford a colt, any input would be great, also looking for a good choice for cc..

Boy, did you ever get some input! This reminds me of the great 9mm vs 45acp threads of days past. Didn't there use to be a "get out the popcorn and get ready for the show" meme that was always posted?

I wonder if the OP has found something he likes?
 

Jim Watson

New member
It reminds me of the time that I was ready to splurge on an upper class pistol, say $3500 at the time. A brand I thought of good quality and styled only a bit florid was getting into 2011s so I sent them an inquiry. They sent back a picture of one of these overstyled mishmashes of seemingly random grooves and holes and I said no, thanks anyhow.
I shopped around and ended up with a pre-Staccato STI. It suits my shooting style and looks good with never a French fried border in sight.

Looking at the catalog today, I see that first outfit has toned down their styling some. But they have also raised their prices a good bit. Sorry, guys.
 

Dashunde

New member
I think picking a 1911 boils down to what you want it for in the first place and your feelings (yuck).
Heirloom? Carry? Pride-of-ownership? Pure range use? Investment/safe queen?

Personally I view 1911's as heirloom/range guns and at today's ammo prices I ask myself "Is the gun being shot fun enough and accurate enough to be worthy of running so much $$ through it?"

With that in mind I tend to buy Dan Wesson 45's and 10mm's for their balance of quality, price, fit/finish and how they shoot. I'm ok with spending $$ to feed them, and I feel good about cleaning and admiring them later, and I'll feel good about handing them down when the time comes.
 

Hawg

New member
Personally I view 1911's as heirloom/range guns and at today's ammo prices I ask myself "Is the gun being shot fun enough and accurate enough to be worthy of running so much $$ through it?"

I run homemade stuff in mine with home cast SWC's along with some steel cased stuff when I don't feel like chasing brass.
 

Mosin44az

New member
Wow the OP certainly got a discussion going here but it looks we haven’t seen him since the first page. Wonder what he decided….
 

Dashunde

New member
and everything remotely related will be recommended, leaving him not much better off than when he started.

Maybe. Or the OP just zero's in and gathers more info on the track he was already on.

Either way, forums would be pretty boring if only perfectly tuned comments were posted.
 
Top