1903 Springfield Sporter, Researched, Unusual? Please Weigh In!

R

Rabid1

New member
Hello, my name is Rick Douthit. I’m a retired cop and business owner. I acquired this 1903 from my step-father who is no longer with us.

I don’t believe in asking questions until I’ve researched the Web for the answers first. I’ve pretty much done that for this rifle, and now I’d welcome the opinions of the experts on this forum.

Full-Left-Side_zpsmdtzmdml.jpg


What I know:

The barrel date, receiver serial (1498077) and stock serial (same) all match. (See Below)

Muzzle-Star_zps1jhjvdrd.jpg


http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa258/Rabid1_photos/Springfield%201903/Barrel-Marings-A_zpslcwv1mf2.jpg[/IMG

The Lyman “Alaskan” Scope is period-correct. This model scope (with no turret caps serial# 1712) was only produced from 1937-41 and there were fewer than 4000 made.

[IMG]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa258/Rabid1_photos/Springfield%201903/Scope-Markings_zpsdowuh40e.jpg

More

I’m not sure what these barrel markings mean:

The “P” Stamp on barrel

Here:

The “C 2147” Stamp

Here.


Regarding the bolt: At first I was concerned because there was no serial number visible. Based on a tip from a forum member I checked it under bright light, and, sure enough found the faint remnants of the serial.

Bolt-Serial_zpsn9zm5s9v.jpg


Firing Pin Rod:

Has "NS 3" Stamp

And C 64109 2

Stock Markings:

Stock-Markings-A_zpspics073l.jpg


Here’s where it gets interesting:
We know the Lyman scope and Griffin & Howe mount are period-correct. The mount looks to be at the very least, professionally installed. The edges of the stock cutout around the mount are stained like the rest of the stock. Could this be a factory job? Could the “P” stamp on the barrel mean it’s a prototype?

Scope-Cutout_zpsmvgqa4ih.jpg


Does anyone have an opinion about this rifle? Value? (The barrel’s in good condition and everything functions as intended)
I welcome all answers!
Thanks for taking the time, it’s very much appreciated.
Rick
 
Last edited:
J

Jim Watson

New member
Looks to me like you have a real deal Springfield Sporter, one of 5000-6000 made in the 1920s and 1930s. Discontinued by the Armory so as to not have the government competing with new model commercial rifles from Winchester and Remington.
The star on the muzzle means the barrel was star gauged, measured in groove and land every inch of the barrel and meeting specifications.
The "P" is for Proof test, not prototype.
The SA/S.P.G. is a known Springfield Armory inspector's stamp, but not who.
A lot of those other stamps were made by men long dead for records long lost. Maybe somebody on the CMP forum can decode them.

I doubt the G&H double lever side mount and Lyman Alaskan were installed at Springfield. You can be sure that G&H would make the cut in the stock look right.

Does it retain the Lyman 48 receiver sight or at least its base?

Dollar value is substantial, although replacement of the receiver sight by scope might hurt. It might not, that is a perfectly legitimate rig of its era.

I once had a copy, built up on a 1903 Remington action in a 1922 stock. It looked right at six feet but would not stand close examination. It was a fine shooter, in spite of its lack of authenticity.
 
S

Scorch

New member
I agree with Jim, it looks like an NRA Sporter. Hard to tell without having it in hand, but it has a lot of the marks of being authentic. Last one I saw sold went for somewhere around $4K.
 
H

highpower3006

New member
The "P" on the barrel just means that it was proofed. The “C 2147” is the star gauge number. To my knowledge NO '03 Springfield sporters were sent out with a scope mounted on the rifle. Brophy's excellent book "The Springfield 1903 Rifles" does not mention any original arsenal built rifles and in thirty years of collecting I have never seen any documentation to suggest that any came that way. The standard rear sight was a Lyman No48.

"C 64109 2" is a drawing number and the "NS" on the firing pin means that it is made from nickel steel. Some sporters came with chrome vanadium strikers and triggers and they will be marked with a "CV".

Unfortunately, while it is a family heirloom, the actual value has taken a hit due to the scope being mounted. Nevertheless, they are great rifles. I had one several years ago and I wish I still had it.
 
4

4V50 Gary

Staff
I just checked Brophy and didn't look at Campbell's (The'03 Era) yet. It does indeed look like a Springfield Armory NRA sporter. Let's see the other side of the stock where the Lyman 48 rear aperture sight would have gone.

OK, I checked with Campbell. It is legitimate. However, for final confirmation let's see the other side of the receiver. It should have been adapted for a Lyman 48.
 
J

Jim Watson

New member
Oh, good, it still has the Lyman base. You could probably get a staff from Gary Fellers if you wanted a complete outfit. But I would not try to delete the scope.
 
4

4V50 Gary

Staff
BTW, that Griffin & Howe mount and base was not on the original sporters. Either it was done at Griffin & Howe but it might also have been done at Springfield Armory on an unofficial basis. Lyman Alaskans were optional equipment when insufficient M81/M82 telescopes were available so the non-standard (ahem, non-GI) version of them, the Lyman Alaskan, was used instead for the M-1C sniper Garand.

I know of at least one rifle that was converted into sporter configuration post-war with G&H scope base and mount and Lyman Alaskan. It was done for an officer stationed at Springfield (had this confirmed by Springfield Armory National Historic Site) and then sold to him cheap (they left the front sight loose so it was sold as a "defective" product).
 
4

4V50 Gary

Staff
I'm not an expert on the Alaskan. It could be the year of production? I take it's a regular crosshair?

BTW, I've seen no documentation attesting that Springfield Armory converted any of their '03 sporters to take the G&H scope mount. However, it is highly unlikely that any G&H scope mounts with Lyman scopes were released for public sale until after the M1C was declared surplus. I seriously doubt they were ever released from the '50s or '80s and it wasn't until Bubba became president that they had lottos for them.

The other possibility is that G&H installed it. You may want to ask them if they have records of their work. If they did, when would they have acquired an Alaskan?
 
J

Jim Watson

New member
Serial number is not on the G&H Lookup but all that means is that they did not SELL it. Of course they didn't, Springfield did, through the NRA.
Unfortunately they don't www their gunsmithing records, not required to be kept in those days, anyhow.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top