16" AR vs 16" bolt action in 223/556?

[johnwilliamson062]

What I am asking is if a bolt action with same length barrel and same type ammo will show any higher degree of accuracy over a semi automatic rifle such as the one I currently possess?

There are manufacturing generalities here. The tighter the tolerances the more something costs to manufacture. The more moving parts interacting the more tolerances that have to be controlled. When something is automated, such as a gas driven semi-auto, there needs to be greater clearance to deal with any unexpected debris v. a bolt gun that is manually operated and brute force can be easily applied to deal with most issues. To get accuracy despite greater clearances or to minimize clearances requires even tighter tolerances, polishing, etc.
So as indicated above, it comes down to price. Many factory production $350 bolt guns will out-shoot factory production $1000 ARs is exactly the end result.

In my very limited, mostly observational, experience the high price tag comes with making a very accurate AR that also remains reliable. With the bolt locking into the barrel directly it seems little else matters as far as technical accuracy.

 

[Art Eatman]

In today's world, most basic bolt actions are capable of under-2-MOA, right out of the box. Many do even better. Costs of $500 and less. I've owned several which were sub-MOA.

How many basic ARs are capable of one MOA, right out of the box?

 

[zincwarrior]

Certain Fulton models are, but we're pushing $1,200
http://www.fulton-armory.com/fariflecal556mmupruniversalprecisionrifle-3-3-2-2.aspx

 

[hdwhit]

keithdog wrote:
I hear bolt guns are inherently more accurate than semi autos...

The "inherent" accuracy of the bolt action over the semi-auto is a function of the fact the semi-automatic has more moving parts so there is a dynamic component from firing it that is not present in the bolt action. But, the effect of those shifts in center of gravity and vibration is much less important that the quality of the parts, the quality of the ammunition, and the skill of the shooter.

For the "five shot, one hole" crowd of competitive shooters those effects matter. For someone defending themselves against a human-size target at 300 yards, the other considerations become more important.

I know that at the ranges I shoot, every rifle I own is more accurate than I am and I suspect that applies to most shooters.

 

[Art Eatman]

I don't see $ 1,200 as being a "basic" AR. I've done minor tweaking on over a half-dozen bolt rifles and grouped regularly below one MOA. By minor I mean reworking the forearm bedding and occasionally replacing the trigger. Nothing that I'd call serious work. And some didn't need much of anything.

 

[mavracer]

How many basic ARs are capable of one MOA, right out of the box?

It's not hard to get a reasonably priced AR to shoot MOA with decent ammo, just need a fairly good barrel a free float handguard and a good trigger.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

It's not hard to get a reasonably priced AR to shoot MOA with decent ammo

Custom hand loads?
I haven't seen this accuracy reliably with any of the basic models. Push $1000 and, sure, but at the closer to $500 I haven't personally seen it, heard it, or read it on the interwebs.

 

[mavracer]

Custom hand loads?

Not at all, I've had very good results with Fiocchi Exrema 77gr SMK.
And yeah most basic ARs are of the M4ish variety don't have freefloat handguards and 5.56 NATO chambers, but there are some available that have Wylde chambered stainless barrels and are free floated.
Was on PSA's site they have a 18" kit for $499 that should easily be MOA.
I used a cheap AR Stoner barrel $119 on sale for my optic service match build and it'll do sub MOA with the aforementioned Fiocchi ammo.

 

[Geezerbiker]

My .223 varmint rifle is 3x as heavy as an AR15. The weight makes it more stable on the bi-pod and heat up slower on the down side it also takes longer to cool. It's a different tool for a different job...

I still want an AR and will get one when funds allow.

Tony

 

[DaleA]

Don't wait too long for that AR Geezerbiker, prices are pretty low right now...maybe rock bottom but for sure I'm no real judge of that.

Even Cabela's has a $400 AR. Plus you can get 5% off if you're a military veteran.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/ANDERSON-MFG-AM-OPTIC-READY-CENTERFIRE-RIFLE/2392846.uts

 

[stagpanther]

Adjusted for inflation--I have NEVER seen AR prices as low as they are now!

 

[mavracer]

My .223 varmint rifle is 3x as heavy as an AR15. The weight makes it more stable on the bi-pod and heat up slower on the down side it also takes longer to cool. It's a different tool for a different job...

Your varmint rifle weighs more than 30 pounds?
My SDM based service match rifle is over 10

 

[johnwilliamson062]

Was on PSA's site they have a 18" kit for $499 that should easily be MOA.
I used a cheap AR Stoner barrel $119 on sale for my optic service match build and it'll do sub MOA with the aforementioned Fiocchi ammo.

You are talking about building a rifle. That includes numerous other costs. Tools, attaining knowledge, time, etc. I assume the kit also lacks a lower which is going to add cost.

 

[mavracer]

That includes numerous other costs. Tools, attaining knowledge, time, etc. I assume the kit also lacks a lower which is going to add cost.

Yes it would require a lower about $50 currently and a small hammer and a pin punch prolly $10-$15.
That's well under $1000 and forum rules don't allow me to comment on the mentality of someone incapable of watching a YouTube video and assembling a lower. But they prolly don't need to worry about MOA??????

 

[stagpanther]

forum rules don't allow me to comment on the mentality of someone incapable of watching a YouTube video

Good. I won't have to explain the goof-ups I've accomplished.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

Forum rules don't allow me to comment on the simplicity of someone who put $0 value on their time and won't count the time watching all those youtube videos in their accounting or admit that using basic non-specialized tools without marring items or otherwise buggering things up wastes further time, especially on the first go round. Anyone in said category probably worries too much about MOA.

Some people simply don't want to build one on their own. Mechanical assembly is not a skill required to qualify as a shooter.

Also, there are areas of the country where the transfer costs $50.

But year, you can build one cheaper than you can buy one. You can buy a cheap one and swap the barrel and sometimes that alone will do it.

 

[Nanuk]

Mechanically, an AR action can certainly hang with a bolt action. The bolt action is still easier to be accurate with though because it has no reciprocating mass.

By the time the BCG on an AR moves the bullet is LONG gone. It takes the pressure pulse behind the bullet to unlock the bolt. That moving mass is irrelevant. Crappy triggers and sloppy chambers hurt AR accuracy, the things that make one ultra reliable hurt accuracy.

 

[Kvon2]

My stag m6 outshoots my Browning x-bolt. The stags barrel is two inches longer so not the perfect comparison but I am shooting .223 out of each.

I personally believe the bolt gun inherently being more accurate is a total myth. I think the only reason people tend to shoot more accurately with bolt guns is because you need to line each shot up instead of just pulling the trigger over and over.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

By the time the BCG on an AR moves the bullet is LONG gone. It takes the pressure pulse behind the bullet to unlock the bolt. That moving mass is irrelevant.

You can see bullet impact (and sometimes trace) easier with a bolt, which becomes more important when range estimation and wind are part of the equation; because then you have an idea of what you did wrong when you miss.

 

[44 AMP]

I personally believe the bolt gun inherently being more accurate is a total myth.

It's not total myth. It's just not the universal truth it once was....