10mm 1911 or Coonan
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JoeArizona
New member
The Coonan
I have had 2 Model A Coonans and a Model B. I still have one Model A left and it is for sale on Gunbroker right now (blatant sales pitch
) and I still have the Model B.
The fit and finish on all of these older Coonans is like custom and the performance has been flawless...You just have to remember the lithium grease! They have fed anything I could find to shoot...and what a hoot they are to shoot!!! Extremely accurate also.
I have heard horror stories about these originals but I believe most of the problem guns were made after Dan Coonan sold the company. Those guns will have Maplewood instead of St. Paul on the slide. BEWARE!
No experience with the brand new "Classics".
Coonans are definitely big boy guns...pretty large and heavy. Too heavy for me to carry anyway...
I have had 2 Model A Coonans and a Model B. I still have one Model A left and it is for sale on Gunbroker right now (blatant sales pitch
) and I still have the Model B.The fit and finish on all of these older Coonans is like custom and the performance has been flawless...You just have to remember the lithium grease! They have fed anything I could find to shoot...and what a hoot they are to shoot!!! Extremely accurate also.
I have heard horror stories about these originals but I believe most of the problem guns were made after Dan Coonan sold the company. Those guns will have Maplewood instead of St. Paul on the slide. BEWARE!
No experience with the brand new "Classics".
Coonans are definitely big boy guns...pretty large and heavy. Too heavy for me to carry anyway...
No doubt.....however , I really enjoy everything about my DW 1911 chambered for 10mm and would get another one in a heartbeat ! I hope you enjoy your indestructible Glock as much ! I'm sure STI , Colt , Kimber , Wilson , Dan Wesson , Nighthawk , Fusion , Guncrafter Industries , and other 1911 producers or custom builders all agree with you !
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bamaranger
New member
single action
I like the 10mm, and was trying to buy a Delta, but ended up with a G20 by default. I'd think the SA trigger would be a bit easier to hit with at distances past 25 yds or so, all else being equal, applicable I guess if one were going to hunt with their 10mm.
I've heard chatter about 1911's et al not being up to the stress that the 10mm can generate, but have no actual experience with that at all, just the web and gun shop banter.
Me, if I were going to buy a 10mm 1911......I'd likely go the Rock Island route. Probably wouldn 't shoot it enough to stress it too much, and I'd scratch the itch at minimal cost.....excluding ammo.
I like the 10mm, and was trying to buy a Delta, but ended up with a G20 by default. I'd think the SA trigger would be a bit easier to hit with at distances past 25 yds or so, all else being equal, applicable I guess if one were going to hunt with their 10mm.
I've heard chatter about 1911's et al not being up to the stress that the 10mm can generate, but have no actual experience with that at all, just the web and gun shop banter.
Me, if I were going to buy a 10mm 1911......I'd likely go the Rock Island route. Probably wouldn 't shoot it enough to stress it too much, and I'd scratch the itch at minimal cost.....excluding ammo.
10mm preference
Bamaranger , thanks for sharing a more reasonable post....I fully agree and it really boils down to personal preference and what you can afford ! My friends all have different preference in pistols and I'm glad they do but at least they don't try cramming it down your throat like its the only pistol worth having !
Bamaranger , thanks for sharing a more reasonable post....I fully agree and it really boils down to personal preference and what you can afford ! My friends all have different preference in pistols and I'm glad they do but at least they don't try cramming it down your throat like its the only pistol worth having !
Thanks everyone, I am likely going to go the Coonan route, I realize the gun has some needs and a learning curve and I am not afraid to take that on, overall most seem very satisfied with it.
My comment on the 10mm and not hot rodding it simply meant I would not try to load it to 44 mag energy levels, I realize that the factory (excepting BB / Cor-bon / double tap / etc and etc) loadings in 10 mm do not live up to the rounds potential.
As to the 1911 and the 10mm I have gone round and round with that talking to multiple people, smiths, etc. What I have concluded is with modern, well designed and built guns it should have an acceptable service life. Put another way... enough 10mm 1911's have been sold to people who have the time and money to put plenty of ammo through them, if the guns were failing predictably I'd expect to see more about it.
As to the 10mm I'd still love one, I just am really trying to exercise some self control and not add another round to the stable. The pics of a 10mm GP100 a friend just sent me are NOT helping with this....
My comment on the 10mm and not hot rodding it simply meant I would not try to load it to 44 mag energy levels, I realize that the factory (excepting BB / Cor-bon / double tap / etc and etc) loadings in 10 mm do not live up to the rounds potential.
As to the 1911 and the 10mm I have gone round and round with that talking to multiple people, smiths, etc. What I have concluded is with modern, well designed and built guns it should have an acceptable service life. Put another way... enough 10mm 1911's have been sold to people who have the time and money to put plenty of ammo through them, if the guns were failing predictably I'd expect to see more about it.
As to the 10mm I'd still love one, I just am really trying to exercise some self control and not add another round to the stable. The pics of a 10mm GP100 a friend just sent me are NOT helping with this....
More than .45acp....
Simple choice, at first....go with the .357 as caliber of choice, or buy something new.
The sad fact is that magnum autopistols are a niche market, and other than "orphan" (discontinued) guns your choices are very limited. The Coonan is back in production, I hope it stays, but only time will tell. The Desert Eagle is in production. The LAR Grizzly, Auto Mag, and apparently the Wildey are all "orphans".
The currently available .357s are the Coonan and the Desert Eagle. They are quite different beasts. People have remarked on how big the Coonan is, but its the smallest of the magnum class autopistols.
The Coonan is a little bit bigger and heavier than a regular Govt Model 1911A1. The Desert Eagle is much larger and heavier, and needs to be fed only a certain kind of ammo (NO LEAD BULLETS). The Coonan, being recoil operated, doesn't have this restriction.
The 10mm is available in different "beefed up" versions of service autos. Loaded to its potential, its powerful enough to be in the bottom end of the real "magnum" class.
Its a matter of what you want to do with it. If you want something "more" that's still close to reasonably sized for carry, one of the 10mms fits better.
Other than the Desert Eagle, the big bore magnum autos are all "orphans" as you put it. Shame, really.
Shooting big bore magnum loads from an autoloader is a much different experience than shooting them from a revolver. Its a very different feel. And the further away you get from the Browing tilt barrel in a slide designs, the more different it is.
The Coonan and the Grizzly, both being derivatives of the 1911 style can be very accurate. The Auto Mag, Desert Eagle, and Wildey can be phenomenally accurate. But these are all far from the "service/duty auto" class in size and weight.
To make the most of what you already have (.357) go with the Coonan, and live with the sticker shock. The Coonan also handles .38s with a change of springs. If you want something as close, or still in the duty gun size class, the 10mm does that, but means another caliber.
Of course, if you reload, that helps on the cost, except when you need to tool up for another caliber.
Simple choice, at first....go with the .357 as caliber of choice, or buy something new.
The sad fact is that magnum autopistols are a niche market, and other than "orphan" (discontinued) guns your choices are very limited. The Coonan is back in production, I hope it stays, but only time will tell. The Desert Eagle is in production. The LAR Grizzly, Auto Mag, and apparently the Wildey are all "orphans".
The currently available .357s are the Coonan and the Desert Eagle. They are quite different beasts. People have remarked on how big the Coonan is, but its the smallest of the magnum class autopistols.
The Coonan is a little bit bigger and heavier than a regular Govt Model 1911A1. The Desert Eagle is much larger and heavier, and needs to be fed only a certain kind of ammo (NO LEAD BULLETS). The Coonan, being recoil operated, doesn't have this restriction.
The 10mm is available in different "beefed up" versions of service autos. Loaded to its potential, its powerful enough to be in the bottom end of the real "magnum" class.
Its a matter of what you want to do with it. If you want something "more" that's still close to reasonably sized for carry, one of the 10mms fits better.
Other than the Desert Eagle, the big bore magnum autos are all "orphans" as you put it. Shame, really.
Shooting big bore magnum loads from an autoloader is a much different experience than shooting them from a revolver. Its a very different feel. And the further away you get from the Browing tilt barrel in a slide designs, the more different it is.
The Coonan and the Grizzly, both being derivatives of the 1911 style can be very accurate. The Auto Mag, Desert Eagle, and Wildey can be phenomenally accurate. But these are all far from the "service/duty auto" class in size and weight.
To make the most of what you already have (.357) go with the Coonan, and live with the sticker shock. The Coonan also handles .38s with a change of springs. If you want something as close, or still in the duty gun size class, the 10mm does that, but means another caliber.
Of course, if you reload, that helps on the cost, except when you need to tool up for another caliber.
To fill my itch for a hand cannon and HAND CANNON EXTREME I have a couple of Glock 20's. I hit eBay and purchased several extra slide assembles in G21 and G21S. I also purchased a Rowland 460 kit that I keep in the G21 slide.
I purchased everything used, at good prices, so I have about 1200 bucks in my two guns and extra slides.
I am still looking for a .50 GI conversion to round out this itch of mine. like to snag a used one and save some money.
http://yotak.sqvdu.servertrust.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=GI-1S
I purchased everything used, at good prices, so I have about 1200 bucks in my two guns and extra slides.
I am still looking for a .50 GI conversion to round out this itch of mine. like to snag a used one and save some money.
http://yotak.sqvdu.servertrust.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=GI-1S
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I have been having a lot of fun shooting my 460 Rowland XD 4" with the compensator on the barrel. It definitely gives magnum performance in a duty size gun!
The only problems I have been having are keeping the comp fixed on the barrel. The red Locktite that I have been using doesn't seem to hold when the barrel gets heated up after a couple of magazines.
The other problem is that somewhere in the ejection cycle, it puts a big dent in the side of the case and dents the case mouth.
I should mention I also have a DPM recoil reduction system installed to handle the extra power, and it seems to make a big difference.
The only problems I have been having are keeping the comp fixed on the barrel. The red Locktite that I have been using doesn't seem to hold when the barrel gets heated up after a couple of magazines.
The other problem is that somewhere in the ejection cycle, it puts a big dent in the side of the case and dents the case mouth.
I should mention I also have a DPM recoil reduction system installed to handle the extra power, and it seems to make a big difference.
LouisianaAviator
New member
I'd personally go with the 10mm.
Better parts availability, a more widely used platform/caliber combination, better ergonomics (the length of that .357 Magnum grip is not for the small-handed!), and I'd wager better reliability. I have a friend who owned one of the older ones and we took it out back to shoot. He was using Federal 357b 125 grain SJHP. There tended to be one misfeed every magazine, with three different magazines.
I think he sold it over a year ago.
You have to remember that the Coonan is not really a true 1911. It has several very key mechanical differences, like a linkless barrel and external extractor. In my opinion (and I could be wrong) I don't think the Coonan is an inherently reliable pistol design. The .357 Magnum is a thick-rimmed revolver cartridge. It was not designed to load and cycle in a semi-automatic pistol. As cool as the concept of a semi-auto .357 Magnum is, I think a 10mm 1911 would be far more practical.
But that's just me. Really what it comes down to is what you want. I'm sure you'd enjoy either pistol.
EDIT: I know this thread is about you considering the 10mm or .357 Mag, and I usually don't like telling the OP to consider something they didn't ask about, but I'd like to throw out a suggestion in support of what some others have said. If you're looking for "above .45 ACP power", I'd look into .45 Super, and, if you really want to bump up the ballistics, .460 Rowland. Although the conversion to .460 is expensive, you could use an existing .45 ACP handgun like a Glock 21 or 1911. Just an idea.
Better parts availability, a more widely used platform/caliber combination, better ergonomics (the length of that .357 Magnum grip is not for the small-handed!), and I'd wager better reliability. I have a friend who owned one of the older ones and we took it out back to shoot. He was using Federal 357b 125 grain SJHP. There tended to be one misfeed every magazine, with three different magazines.
I think he sold it over a year ago.
You have to remember that the Coonan is not really a true 1911. It has several very key mechanical differences, like a linkless barrel and external extractor. In my opinion (and I could be wrong) I don't think the Coonan is an inherently reliable pistol design. The .357 Magnum is a thick-rimmed revolver cartridge. It was not designed to load and cycle in a semi-automatic pistol. As cool as the concept of a semi-auto .357 Magnum is, I think a 10mm 1911 would be far more practical.
But that's just me. Really what it comes down to is what you want. I'm sure you'd enjoy either pistol.
EDIT: I know this thread is about you considering the 10mm or .357 Mag, and I usually don't like telling the OP to consider something they didn't ask about, but I'd like to throw out a suggestion in support of what some others have said. If you're looking for "above .45 ACP power", I'd look into .45 Super, and, if you really want to bump up the ballistics, .460 Rowland. Although the conversion to .460 is expensive, you could use an existing .45 ACP handgun like a Glock 21 or 1911. Just an idea.
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357 Magnum is cheaper and more common. Any one that says the 10MM is more powerful than the 357 magnum is at best splitting hairs. Id put a 6 inch Coonan with Buffalo bore up against any factory 10mm load as far as energy or velocity.
As far as reliable, My Coonan has been 100% with any thing 125 grain or heavier in factory loaded 357 magnum. They only issues I have ever had with it is Winchester White Box 110 grain reduced recoil. I also hear it doe not function with the CCI snake shot but that is to be expected. I have shot 110 grain reloaded rounds through my Coonan and it works fine if loaded medium to hot.
The area that I have to concede to the 10mm is capacity.
p.s. I am not saying that the 10mm is not great because it is. I have had a Glock 29 (any thing from glock that is not a 380 acp is awesome!) for a long time and love it! I am just saying that the Coonan is also a great gun. If I was to go hunting and my only choice was a 10MM or a 357 magnum id pick the 357 magnum every time but if it was for self defence Id go 10mm every time.
As far as reliable, My Coonan has been 100% with any thing 125 grain or heavier in factory loaded 357 magnum. They only issues I have ever had with it is Winchester White Box 110 grain reduced recoil. I also hear it doe not function with the CCI snake shot but that is to be expected. I have shot 110 grain reloaded rounds through my Coonan and it works fine if loaded medium to hot.
The area that I have to concede to the 10mm is capacity.
p.s. I am not saying that the 10mm is not great because it is. I have had a Glock 29 (any thing from glock that is not a 380 acp is awesome!) for a long time and love it! I am just saying that the Coonan is also a great gun. If I was to go hunting and my only choice was a 10MM or a 357 magnum id pick the 357 magnum every time but if it was for self defence Id go 10mm every time.
While certainly true, it really doesn't matter much. There are essentially two ways of getting a given cartridge in a pistol. One is to start with the cartridge design, and build a pistol around it. The other is to start with an already existing pistol, and build a cartridge to fit in it.
The 9mm Luger was designed to fit in the Luger pistol. The pistol was not designed about the 9mm round. So to the .40 S&W, it was designed to fit in a 9mm size pistol.
What was done with the Coonan was to take the cartridge, and adapt an existing (general) design around it. Yes, the Coonan is not exactly a 1911A1, but it is more similar than it is different.
Now that Coonan is back on the market, and several posters have them, we can get a good feedback on their personal experiences. Most are saying the Coonan is very reliable.
I have one of the original Coonan Model A's. You would consider it closer to the 1911, because it does use a barrel link. While I have not shot it a lot, it has been 100% reliable for me.
One thing I have heard people complain about is the "sloppy" fit of the Coonan slide, compared to (usually high end) 1911A1s. They think this is an indicator of poor quality, or execution of design. In fact, it is just the opposite.
A tight fit with the slide of a 1911 is regarded as a good thing, and a looser fit is considered "sloppy" (or worn). The Coonan is made with a looser fit, because (and they will tell you this if asked) due to the nature of the .357 (length of round, and pressures involved) the slide "flexes" as it cycles. IN a .45 or 9mm this flexing is essentially unnoticed, and inconsequential. In the .357, its a necessary thing as the gun functions, and the fit of the parts takes this into account.
I've got no particular love for the 10mm. I don't have anything against it, I just don't care about it. .357 is far more versatile, and available, particularly if you stick to factory ammo.
And it should also be noted for anyone not aware. That is likely more of an issue with the stock recoil spring than it is the actual gun or cartridge design.
It's simple, those two rounds that didn't function, generate relatively little recoil and gasses compared to 'hot' loads. If you get a spring to shoot .38spl loads, it would likely have no problem functioning with lighter .38 and .357mag loads.
It's obvious that the stock spring is intended for full powered .357 loads. It makes sense. Most people would be buying a .357 mag auto, for the power of that cartridge, anyway, so might as well optimize the gun to shoot those heavier loads, without beating the slide/gun up too badly. Especially, when lighter loads can function with a simple spring change.
While I don't have one of the new Coonans, my understanding is that they come with springs for both .357 and .38special level loads.
The original guns also used a different magazine for .38s, but Coonan has redesigned their mag for the new guns, and while it takes a spring change to shoot .38s, the mag is the same these days.
The key to running any auto pistol is balancing the load level and recoil spring tension. Neither the Coonan nor any 10mm is any different in this regard.
The original guns also used a different magazine for .38s, but Coonan has redesigned their mag for the new guns, and while it takes a spring change to shoot .38s, the mag is the same these days.
The key to running any auto pistol is balancing the load level and recoil spring tension. Neither the Coonan nor any 10mm is any different in this regard.
We've got an infrequent poster here on TFL who worked on both the original Coonan pistols and the current ones. IIRC, they've done a lot of testing with the guns even with -NO- recoil spring in them. So the proper spring is certainly critical to the running & functioning of the pistol, but I'm quite vague on just how important it is to the health and longevity of the pistol.
That's likely a discussion for genuine gun builders and tuners.
What I do know about the Coonan Classic is that the OEM spring for .357 Magnum is 22lbs and if you want the Coonan to run reliably and all the time, feed it the BEAST. It wants your full bore ammunition, that's what it eats and that's what it was designed around. If you want to make a Coonan MALF, give it wimpy ammo.
The current pistols also ship with an accessory spring specifically for shooting .38 Special and that happens to be a 10-lb spring and it's been my experience thus far that when you put that spring in, the SAME rules apply. Your .38 Special ammo also needs to be at the -FULL- end range of .38 Special. Light target stuff isn't going to work in the pistol. You'll have a manually operated repeater. (kinda neat, actually!)
That's likely a discussion for genuine gun builders and tuners.
What I do know about the Coonan Classic is that the OEM spring for .357 Magnum is 22lbs and if you want the Coonan to run reliably and all the time, feed it the BEAST. It wants your full bore ammunition, that's what it eats and that's what it was designed around. If you want to make a Coonan MALF, give it wimpy ammo.
The current pistols also ship with an accessory spring specifically for shooting .38 Special and that happens to be a 10-lb spring and it's been my experience thus far that when you put that spring in, the SAME rules apply. Your .38 Special ammo also needs to be at the -FULL- end range of .38 Special. Light target stuff isn't going to work in the pistol. You'll have a manually operated repeater. (kinda neat, actually!)
Dain Bramage
New member
I second what Stevens says. In my only .38 Special trial, my Coonan Classic would not cycle with wimpy Winchester 130 gr FMJ. The .38 Sp spring seems to be set up for .38 Sp +P defensive loads. I don't have any .38 Sp guns, and I only had the Winchester box around for training kids and newbies with my .357 revolvers, so I didn't explore the issue further.
The Coonan also prefers full power .357, and can be sensitive to non-ogive bullet profiles. It doesn't like my LSWCs. This is as expected. The cartridge envelope is more restricted for most semi-autos than for revolvers. Feed it full power JHP, RNFP, and TCs, and it will run all day. Want to stuff any pug-ugly blunt bullet profile? Buy a wheel gun.
I have both, and have to say that the Coonan always puts a smile on my face.