100 Yd pistol load

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Nick_C_S

New member
Okay, this one has been rattling around in my had since the last IDPA I attended (5/24) I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post, but here goes. . .

Last month, we had and IDPA stage where you had to hit a 18"x24" steel plate at 100 yards. Silly - I know. Not sure what a 100 yd shot has to do with the spirit of IDPA, but there it was.

I shoot a S&W M67 38 Special 4" bbl. I shoot wadcutters in competition. As soon as I saw the stage, I knew my wadcutters would be tumbling by the time they went that far downrange :( So I searched my car high and low and found a box of Winchester white box 130g fmj's. I lucked out. Not ideal, I thought, but definitely better than wadcutters.

I hit the target on my 4th shot. The RSO said I was very close on the other three. I told him "if I knew we were going to have a 100 yard stage, I would have brought some hot 158 plated flat points." He said I would be better off with a lighter bullet, and a bystander agreed. They said the flatter trajectory of a lighter bullet would fare better in this situation. My thought process was that you'd want the bullet weight (in spite of the more arching trajectory) to carry it downrange more consistently.

Who was right?
 
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Bezoar

Moderator
i believe it would depend upon the intent.

in theory light and fast would have a nice flatter trajectory to compensate for the sudden increase in range. but the heavier bullet would buck wind better.

and if you can hit it with the light bullet thats fine. but if you need to hit the target and knock it over, light bullet might not do as well.
 
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Have gun-will travel

New member
I shot many 148 gr wad cutters at an 18X24 steel plate at 100 meters which is over 100 yards using several revolvers including a J frame S&W .It is not hard to do ,just find where you need to hold and let it fly I hit 18 out of 20 with my S&W 340 pd. 12 for 12 with a mod 64 4 inch and 6 with a 6 in S&W 686. All using the same wad cutters.
 
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BuckRub

Moderator
I don't know the ballistics of both heavy and light like you're talking about but both I wouldnt believe would have a 2 inch difference at 100 yards so I don't think it make a hill of beans. Either its clangs or you missed.
 
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SHR970

New member
Choosing the hottest jacketed load data for the 38 Spec. from Lyman #49 I get a max speed for the 125 gr @ 1005fps & the 158 gr @ 821 fps. Since both bullets are shot from a (and presumably the same) 4" test barrel and since both are Hornady bullets we have as close to a fair comparison as possible. The B.C.s listed are .151 &.206 respectively.

Using the Hornady on line ballistics calculator and assuming a sight height of .2" and a 25 yard zero I get:

The 125 gr. will drop 13.8" and have a residual speed of 893 fps.

The 158 gr. will drop 19.8" and have a residual velocity of 769 fps.

One thing light and fast gives you is less Time of Flight. ToF is THE determining factor in how much something drops. 6" is a fairly substantial difference. ToF also is a major determining factor in how much a cross wind effects a bullet's total wind drift.
 
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Boomer58cal

New member
I don't know the ballistics of both heavy and light like you're talking about but both I wouldnt believe would have a 2 inch difference at 100 yards so I don't think it make a hill of beans. Either its clangs or you missed.
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+1
Unless of course your wad cutters simply won't stay stable at that range, I don't think it's going to make that much difference shooting at a 18"x24" plate.

I think you're better off shooting the one that you know best and not switching to a special bullet for 1 special target.

Boomer
 
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mete

New member
The ballistic coefficient of hangun bullets is low. You may drive them hot but they quickly slow down .So ho is not the answer. This is especially apparent in metallic silhouette matches. Larger bore , heavier bullet is the way to go .44 Mag full loads will do it well. Accuracy counts as the target at 200 yds is a ram 36"x 24" IIRC.
 
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Jim243

New member
Not sure what a 100 yd shot has to do with the spirit of IDPA
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It doesn't, and it could not have been a sanctioned match because anyone required to shoot that distance can file a protest of their scores with IDPA national.


6.7. Seventy-five percent (75%) of all shots required in a match must be fifteen (15) yards or less. No shots
longer than twenty-five (25) yards may be required in scenario stages. 35-yard shots are only allowed in standard stages and limited to 6 rounds per stage.
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Jim
 
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Nick_C_S

New member
it could not have been a sanctioned match
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It wasn't. We often compete with "El Dorado rules" (the name of the range). There's a lot of unsanctioned firearms, ammo, equipment, lack of concealment, etc. I made that sound terrible. It's actually a well organized meet, the spirit of IDPA is mostly in tact. I personally "self police." All my equipment, ammo, attaire, is IDPA compliant.

You might do well to pursue the question with the silhouette crowd, though their solutions might be overkill.
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Yeah, I was confused on where to go with this question; it was mostly theoretical in nature. I don't expect we'll have many 100 yard stages.

SHR970 wrote: One thing light and fast gives you is less Time of Flight. ToF is THE determining factor in how much something drops. 6" is a fairly substantial difference. ToF also is a major determining factor in how much a cross wind effects a bullet's total wind drift.
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I think SHR970 has a grip on it. He probably answered plenty well enough to make the correct point. I now believe my peers were right; and I was wrong. I would have been best off with a 125g plated flat point (of the bullets I have on hand), loaded rather warm. And it was considerably breezy that day, btw.
 
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griz

New member
I suspect when they said light & fast they meant that load would hit closest to the sights. I've made hits like that with a short barreled 22, but there was so much drop it took about a cylinder full to get on target.
 
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mikld

New member
I'm not a long distance handgun shooter, but why not just find out where the wadcutters hit at 100 yds? If all you gotta do is make a noise by hitting the gong, wouldn't it be better to use just one bullet for all portions of the competition?
 
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Overscore

New member
In theory, a faster trajectory would be better. No matter what mass is flying down range, gravity is pulling it down from the moment it leaves the muzzle. The less time it is traveling, the less distance down gravity can pull it, so a flatter trajectory than a slower projectile. But, there are more things at play as others have pointed out, such as wind and air resistance.

That aside, what a bizarre IDPA stage to a shot that is four times the max allowed distance.
 
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SHR970

New member
Hornady 148 gr. HBWC B.C.= .047

Lyman 150 gr W.C. B.C. = .038

Yeah, there is more at play than just muzzle velocity. What would you rather compensate for: 13 inches of drop or 30 inches of drop? We haven't even begun to look at wind drift yet. Guess how well the wadcutter does? ;)
 
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JD0x0

New member
Hornady 148 gr. HBWC B.C.= .047

Lyman 150 gr W.C. B.C. = .038
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Ouch. What are those shotgun pellets? Because the BC looks like it.

Why not the Hornady 140 grain 'Cowboy?' it's lighter (and therefore able to be loaded faster) and they claim a G1 BC of .127 which is significantly higher than those wadcutters. I'm not aware of the IDPA rules. Do they specify that you have to shoot W.C.'s? Something with a pointier nose would retain it's velocity better, and therefore shoot flatter with less wind drift.
Lyman #35893 is a 125 grain cast lead bullet with a pointy nose, I can't find a B.C. listed but I'd bet it's still better than those wad cutters even with it's lower mass.
 
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buck460XVR

New member
Originally posted bysalvadore: I agree with MR. Travel, hitting a 100yd 2'x1.5' target with a handgun ain't rocket surgery.
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I gotta agree also. I routinely shoot at a suspended bowling pin @ 70 yards with my handguns. This includes the .38s.
 
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