ZAMAC gun slides

simonrichter

New member
I have a German-made blank firing gun, early 1980ies. Suppose it is of the type that was also produced as a live firing gun for tge US market before the import ban. Are these classic saturday night specials completely ZAMAC (or any other similar alloy), except for barrel, striker etc.? I was really surprised to learn that in my blank firing model, even the slide is non-magnetic, but it's hard to imagine such a material used for the slide of a gun that fires live rounds, even if its only .22 or .25...
 

ttarp

New member
Hi Point makes polymer and zamac pistols in .380, 9mm, and .45, the cheap materials can work if you overbuild them enough.

It results in a large heavy odd looking pistol, but Hi Points are quite tough and reliable, so it can be done.

I have very limited experience with the 80's zamac pistols you speak of though.
 
I believe the classic "Saturday Night Special" pistols such as Wilkinson, Jiminez, etc., are all Zamac except for the barrel and magazine. This is why many of the Saturday Night Special laws include a melting point standard.
 

Lexspeed

New member
I have a 1965 Erma Luger KGP68 in 7,65mm (32 acp) with a frame made from Zamak. It's a fun shooter. But, that zinc alloy has a spotty reputation, at least with some manufacturers like Erma. The state of Illinois even prohibits licensed dealers from selling or transferring "die castings of zinc alloy or other non-homogeneous metal...". Their restricted list includes many well know manufacturer's models from Sig, Colt, Walther...and all Hi Point hand guns. I'm not saying this restricted list is fair, I am just reciting what is the law in this state that has some very restrictive firearm laws.
 

Cheapshooter

New member
The state of Illinois even prohibits licensed dealers from selling or transferring "die castings of zinc alloy or other non-homogeneous metal...". Their restricted list includes many well know manufacturer's models from Sig, Colt, Walther...and all Hi Point hand guns. I'm not saying this restricted list is fair, I am just reciting what is the law in this state that has some very restrictive firearm laws.
Has absolutely nothing to do with the quality, or lack there of.
The state of Illinois
and
that has some very restrictive firearm laws.
says it all. Just an excuse to ban some guns.
 
Lexspeed said:
The state of Illinois even prohibits licensed dealers from selling or transferring "die castings of zinc alloy or other non-homogeneous metal...".
"Non-homogeneous" metal?

So Illinois doesn't allow firearms made of steel or aluminum alloys? No Scandium S&Ws?

Does the law define what they mean by "non-homogeneous metal"? Zamac is an alloy of zinc, just as steel (all steels) is (are) alloy(s) of iron. And I don't think anything on the market is pure aluminum.

The devil in me wants to create a pistol machined from either ingots or forgings of Zamac. The law specifies "die castings," so forgings and ingots are necessarily legal ...
 

Fishbed77

New member
Their restricted list includes many well know manufacturer's models from Sig, Colt, Walther...and all Hi Point hand guns.

It's important to note most of those pistols aren't made by Sig, Colt, or Walther. They are made by companies like GSG and Umarex who either license or own the names of more reputable manufacturers to sell potmetal rimfire replicas.

Hi Point is obviously a different story.
 

Skans

Active member
it's hard to imagine such a material used for the slide of a gun that fires live rounds, even if its only .22 or .25...

What's wrong with Zamac? I hear they make some guns out of plastic these days!

I have a Jennings J-22 that I've had since the late '80's. I still take it to the range on occasion just to prove to myself (and sometimes others) that it works fine. You do need to keep the chamber clean, and a squirt of bore cleaner helps keeping it running strong after about 15-20 shots fired.
 

K_Mac

New member
Lexspeed I live in Illinois and can purchase Hi Point firearms from several local FFL dealers. I own a Hi Point carbine that was purchased by a family member new, locally. As Aquila Blanca said, most (if not all) metals used in modern firearms are alloys, i.e. non-homogeneous. Please give citation to support your claims. I can find find no such laws on the books in Illinois.
 
K Mac said:
As Aquila Blanca said, most (if not all) metals used in modern firearms are alloys, i.e. non-homogeneous.
That's not quite what I said. My point was that, absent a rather strange definition in statute of the word "Homogeneous," I would not consider any metal alloy that is formed from a liquid mix to be "non-homogeneous."

Merriam-Webster on-line defines "homogeneous" thusly:

Definition of homogeneous

1 : of the same or a similar kind or nature

2 : of uniform structure or composition throughout a culturally homogeneous neighborhood

3 : having the property that if each variable is replaced by a constant times that variable the constant can be factored out : having each term of the same degree if all variables are considered a homogeneous equation

What is "homogenized" milk? Unless you buy straight from a farm, today all milk is homogenized, but I'm old enough to remember otherwise. When I was a kid, milk still came in glass bottles, and the cream always separated out and rose to the top. Before pouring a glass of milk, we had to shake up the bottle to mix the cream back into the milk. Homogenizing somehow magically keeps the cream in suspension throughout the milk.

Zamac is an alloy of zinc with varying amounts of aluminum, magnesium, and copper mixed in. (There are actually several "official" types of Zamac, and the amounts of the alloying elements vary from one type to another.) Once the alloy has been mixed and melted in a pot -- you can't separate out the distinct alloying elements from the zinc, so IMHO it IS "homogeneous." It's just not pure zinc -- it's a homogeneous alloy of zinc plus aluminum plus magnesium plus copper [plus whatever].

For comparison, a "Scandium" alloy such as used in sporting equipment is comprised primarily of aluminum, with trace amounts of lithium, magnesium, scandium [in a really tiny percentage], and titanium. The alloying elements are distributed "homogeneously" throughout the alloy at the molecular level.

What Illinois was apparently trying to do was to ban so-called "Saturday night specials" like the Wilkinson/Jiminez pistols based on the melting temperature of the zinc-based alloy. Whether or not the Zamac is homogeneous has nothing to do with its melting point. If they're going to ban firearms on the basis that the metal they're made of is an alloy, and alloys are "non-homogeneous," then ALL modern firearms are prohibited. All the steels and aluminums used in contemporary firearms are alloys.
 

Lexspeed

New member
Lexspeed I live in Illinois and can purchase Hi Point firearms from several local FFL dealers. I own a Hi Point carbine that was purchased by a family member new, locally. As Aquila Blanca said, most (if not all) metals used in modern firearms are alloys, i.e. non-homogeneous. Please give citation to support your claims. I can find find no such laws on the books in Illinois.
K MAC, the sole source of the information I was sharing came from a document that I got at a LGS in Illinois. I will try to post a copy of the document later. The document states the law is "ILCS 5/24-3, Section A, Subsection (h)". I have not looked it up separately to verify the reference.

I will provide more information to clarify my earlier post. Note I am quoting from the document that is referencing the law and not the law itself. "(licensed dealers)... may not sell, or deliver to an unlicensed individual any handgun having a barrel, slide, frame or receiver which is die casting of zinc alloy or other non-homogeneous metal that melts or deforms at a temperature of less that 800 degrees Fahrenheit." The document is two pages and does not indicate who created it. Since I am an ERMA Luger KGP68s fan (that has a ZAMAK receiver) I picked up a copy of the document.

The document provides a sample list of hand guns effected. To provide a few examples: Raven Arms P25 MP25, SIG Sauer Mosquito .22LR, HI-Point all models, all calibers of their handguns, ERMA EP-22, LA-22, ET-22, Bryco all models, all calibers. The list goes on.

Is the information in this document accurate or not? :confused:You tell me. :D
 
lexspeed said:
I will provide more information to clarify my earlier post. Note I am quoting from the document that is referencing the law and not the law itself. "(licensed dealers)... may not sell, or deliver to an unlicensed individual any handgun having a barrel, slide, frame or receiver which is die casting of zinc alloy or other non-homogeneous metal that melts or deforms at a temperature of less that 800 degrees Fahrenheit."
Ah ... when you first cited this, you omitted a critical portion: the information about the melting point.

Just as an example of how this can make a difference, many years ago in my home state an alert city building inspector actually read the building code, and determined that aluminum skylights could not be used in any buildings that were classified as a "non-combustible" type of construction. Since most buildings other than houses and low-rise apartments are of non-combustible construction, and many use aluminum skylights, this caused quite an uproar.

The problem was that the code defined "non-combustible" with criteria that included a minimum melting point -- and no known alloy of aluminum (and certainly not the alloy used in skylights) could meet that melting point. Ultimately, the state stepped in and issued an amendment or an interpretation that allowed the use of aluminum for skylight frames.

Your first citation missed the critical part of the language.
 

Lexspeed

New member
Aguila B., I am guilty as charged. 90% of my posts on firearm forums are from my smartphone and for obvious reasons, I tend to be brief and not verbose. In this case I was too brief. :(

I'd post photos of the document, but the files are large to be accepted. I don't know how reduce the file size with my phone to enable posting. :confused:
 

simonrichter

New member
Does anybody, btw., know how Zamak is finished on the surface? Obviously, you can't use the common techniques since it is not steel, but most guns I know look regularly gunmetal-finished / browned...
 
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