Youth or "Full Size" rifle for my son?

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precision_shooter

New member
My 11yo son has taken an interest in shooting and hunting, which I'm excited about. Means I have another "reason" to buy more guns!:D

With deer season around the corner, I want to get him his own rifle. I hunt with a .308 Tikka T3 which is a little too stout on recoil for him. He is 4'11" or so and weighs 74lbs soaking wet. I had the same thin build when I was his age, not so much anymore...

Anyway, we went and did a little looking today at rifles. I've decided on .243 as the caliber, but am undecided on getting a youth version or full size. We did the whole LOP test where I rest the butt pad on his bicep/bend of the elbow and have him reach up to see if he can grip the rifle/reach the trigger.

The youth was about right, and the "full size" (savage axis) was about 2 inches too long. He could reach the trigger when shouldered, but not when doing the lop test. My concern is if I get him a youth, he would outgrow it pretty quick, but that could always be remedied with a full size stock replacement.

I'm pretty much set on the axis for his first rifle. They have a good reputation for accuracy and the price tag is only $250 new. I figure this is a learning test. If he is good about taking care of it, I will consider a nicer rifle in the future.

Any of you done the same tests/measurements and which way did you go, youth or full size?

Thanks!
 
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10-96

New member
+1 what Semi said. The youth rifles re-stocked to adult sized stocks (either factory or Boyd's) tend to make for easy transitions.
 
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Lucas McCain

New member
Get him a youth model. You did the LOP test but how was he dressed when he did it, compared to how he will be dressed when he's hunting. A heavy coat quickly makes a standard LOP gun hard to hold correctly and comfortably for a young hunter. I have a model 70 compact with a 12" LOP that I bought for the grandkids. I have no problem shouldering that rifle, matter of fact it smoother and easier than my model 70 featherweight and I'M 6'-6"tall with long arms.
As another suggestion, instead of a 243 have you considered a 7mm-08. That is an awful good cartridge, even for elk sized game. And recoil is very much the same as the 243.
 
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Jim243

New member
At 4' 11" and 74 lbs, he will love the 243, the 7-08 not so much. And anyone that says the recoils are the same is smoking loco weed. A 95 grain SST will kill an animal very well without the recoil of a 150 grain 7 mm.

Jim
 
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Nathan

New member
I too reccomend the 243 in the youth model.

Nothing says you cannot sell the 243 after 3-5 years and move to a full size 308 or something. Your "rental loss" will be minimal.

Make sure you put a reputable scope on that. Burris Fullfield II are pretty good.
 
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Sure Shot Mc Gee

New member
FWIW: 6mm is another cartridge to consider for junior.
As far as junior's first rifle. Since he's surely going to be taught a little Gun Safety by Pop's and to pick & choose his shots (wisely) as Dad does. There is nothing better than a single shot rifle or shotgun for the purpose. A H&R Handi-Rifle on this occasion would make a great first big game rifle for a young want-to-be hunter. You could order the model that comes with a Youth Stock to accommodate junior's shoulder even. When target shooting. Your Son he'll never get bored having his very own Handi-Rifle. Him having to reload shot after shot will keep his interest on-going alone. lol~~~ A positive thing for Dad. Single shot weapons quite often help conserve ammo. Which is a good thing these days considering what centerfire ammo cost's.
 
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Mobuck

Moderator
My plan was to take a common Rem 700 in 243 and cut 2" off the stock. The short stock would be cycled through all of our kids and then replaced with a full sized stock later. Then Daughter turned out to be a lefty. She got Dad's hand-me-down Savage 243 that already had the stock shortened 1" after she moved up from her cut down Savage 223.
Choose a common model rifle and expect to replace the stock later OR just buy an el-cheapo take-off stock and cut that one now.
 
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precision_shooter

New member
Excellent points all around. I actually had not thought about the wearing thicker, heavier clothes in the winter and issues it could cause with proper posture/position on the rifle compared to just a t-shirt that he was wearing yesterday.

As far as caliber, I don't see us getting the opportunity to hunt elk in the near future. It will mainly be White Tail, Hogs, and a very slim chance of Mule Deer. If the opportunity ever arises for us to go on an Elk hunting trip, it would be several years from now and if he hasn't gotten a new rifle/caliber by then, I have 2 .308's.

As for Safety and Hunting etiquette, he is and will continue to learn the fundamentals, just as my Dad taught me.

Thanks for the helpful feedback!
 
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firme67

New member
weatherby vanguard

I have a weatherby vanguard youth in .243 and it came with shims to adjust lop as shooter grows. I really love this rifle. sub moa guaranty out of the box. you might take a look at it.
 
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10-96

New member
Maybe Sure Shot was referring to the 6mm Remington. That's a fine ctg but I don't think I'd recommend one at this time. I just had one built on a 03A3 action and I caint find any 6mm or .257 Bob brass anywhere a factory ammo is sure 'nuff slim pickins.
 
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tahunua001

New member
unless your son is very small, I would suggest a full sized rifle... eventually he will outgrow the youth otherwise and you'll be stuck trying to get a full sized rifle or putting an adult stock on a very small gun which can make the gun as unserviceable as trying to use use an undersized rifle.
 
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Mobuck

Moderator
putting an adult stock on a very small gun which can make the gun as unserviceable as trying to use use an undersized rifle.
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A matter of opinion. I actually have two rifles that I use frequently which were originally "youth" rifles. At one time, the only way to get a Remington 700 "carbine"(20" barrel) was to buy a youth rifle and restock with a full size stock. I wanted a .308 carbine to use as a "guide gun" and that's how I got one. The other is a Wby Vanguard 7mm08 that I bought at a discount because it didn't sell right away and the store wanted to recoup and stock a more popular rifle. A $30 ebay synthetic full sized stock and 5 minutes with a screwdriver and I have a nice little deer carbine at $100 under normal price.
 
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loic

New member
My son was a little older than your when I gave him obe of my 30-30. The problem was that my son is on the short size, so I bought a youth stock for it and he can now shot it well. The its an old marlin (1982) 336 but I like it because it's simple, shot well and its light. Here it is the one with the black stock.
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globemaster3

New member
stock on a very small gun which can make the gun as unserviceable as trying to use use an undersized rifle.
Click to expand...

Huh? The action will be the same size if we are talking Remington 700 Youth, the Savage Youth models, or Weatherby Vanguard Youth. Perhaps the barrels might be a tad shorter, but the actions are the same.

To the OP, I purchased a Weatherby Vanguard Youth .243 which served its purposes well, and my oldest is all of 5'1". She started with that rifle when she was 12. She's now 18. The rifle came with an extra adult LOP stock for the purposes of mounting later when your young one gets taller (which happens much too fast).

The only problem I had was her perception of the recoil. To me, the rifle is a sweetheart to shoot, with the youth LOP! To her, she thought it kicked too much. If you have a son who is recoil sensitive, it's something to think about.

Should you run into the same problem, in the end I went with the AR and a 6 position stock. Very adjustable length of pull, very mild recoil in either 5.56 or in 6.8 which she shoots for deer. My only problem now is she like to shoot it too much! It gets expensive on our range trips.
 
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tahoe2

New member
Youth model with shorter length of pull !! I purchased a sportered Spanish mauser (chopped military stock) in 7x57 mauser that fit him perfect, when he was 12.
Since I reload, I downloaded it to 30-30 levels for him. Now that he is 17 years old and 45 lbs heavier, it sits in a full sized Boyd's laminate
and he takes full power loads, which in 7x57 mauser is still fairly mild in the recoil dept.
He can handle full power 8x57 mauser loads, but still prefers his 7mm, as it's lighter and quicker handling. He also has a 30-30.:D
 
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Doyle

New member
Do both. I'm serious. Get a rifle that is commonly made in both full sized and youth stocked models. Then, buy the opposite stock on either Ebay or Gunbroker. If you have chosen one of the models that produced lots of both variants, there will be a good supply of take-off stocks. Take-off stocks like I'm talking about almost always go for less than $100.
 
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