You already saw one car hit a cow, do you shoot the next cow you see?

[El Rojo]

Ok, here is the situation. I am driving west on Highway 178 in Kern County, PRK. I am on the infamous Kern Canyon road, for those of you who don't know, it is a windy sun of a gun that follows the deadly Kern River from Lake Isabella to Bakersfield.

The time is 2115-2130 hours, so it is dark. I notice a car drives East bound past me and is flashing its lights at me. On 178 when someone flashes their lights at you and they are going the opposite way, that means slow down and pay attention. I make a right curve onto a small straight away and just before the next left curve, I notice something large in the roadway being illuminated by my head lights. I slow down and approach cautiously. What is it? Yes you guessed it, a very large cow. Not a calf, a big cow. I have one car a couple yards behind me so I slow down, pump my brakes, turn on my flashers. It appears I am pretty fresh on the sceen due to the cow's heavy breathing. I pull up just short of the cow and safely exit the vehicle. The cow is still alive, but it ain't going anywhere. I go back to the car, get my Glock 27 and pop the trunk so I can get my ear muffs. I decide to not get the ear muffs and a few guys going the opposite way that slow down offer to help me move it out of the road. They tell me that the car that hit it is just westbound and pretty much totalled. 4 of us grab a leg each and we haul it off until it is off the road. I tell everyone lets get the heck out of here before we get hit.

I pull up to the next turn out and see the van. I get out and the driver and his dog are fine. His Dodge Caravan is not fine. Pretty much looks totalled and I am pretty happy he is ok after looking at the front of his car and his destroyed windshield. He said he missed one of the cows, but couldn't miss the second one. I tell him I will call the CHP from the next call box and he gives me a business card and asks if I would call his wife and let her know what was going on. Cell phones don't work in the canyon.

I take off and set out to find the next call box. Lets just say it was about 4-5 miles away. Before I get to the next call box, about two miles down the road, I come arond a corner, and there is another cow, right in the middle of my lane! I slow down and start herding it towards a turn out down the road a quarter mile. Basically there is a guard rail on my right and nothing but guard rail past the turn out. I get the cow out of the road and onto the turn out, just narrowly getting the attention of this idiot hauling butt up behind me. The thought crosses my mind for a second, but I figure I need to get out of there and call for a truck for the guy and call his wife. About ten seconds later I think, "What if someone else hits that other cow?"

And then I start to worry. Hindsight be as great as it is, I start to realize that I not only have my Glock 27, I also threw the Remington 870P in the trunk too. What if someone smashes into that bastard second cow and dies? How bad would I feel? Should I have shot it when it got into that other turn out? I figured there was nothing I could do about it then other than pray to God (and I did) that he would take care of the situation, I didn't feel like going back and getting in a wreck with some idiot swerving around the road. Plus there wouldn't be much room for me to manuever out of my car safely on the windy road.

I call the CHP from a call box, inform them that we moved the first cow and there is a second that I was worried about. Gave them a vehicle discription of the van and location. I go on my way since the CHP can't patch me through to the guys wife for liability reasons. No problem, I call from a gas station after I get out of the canyon.

As I go through Bakersfield and turn onto Highway 119 to head home, I stop at the Texaco to get gas and notice a CHP cruiser there. The CHiPer is talking on his cellie outside of the joint. I stop him and ask if he gets traffic out of the canyon. He says yeah and I ask him about the situation, telling him I was the RP and moved a cow out of the road already. He said, they had been chasing "bulls" out of there all day and it appeared there was two crashes right now and they were getting ready to shoot a cow. I asked him if I should have shot the other cow when I had the chance and he responded, "It probably wouldn't have been a good idea." Which I figure translates to, "If I were you I would have if it were safe, but since I am a CHP, I have to say it wouldn't have been a good idea." I thank him and move on.

So would I do the same thing again? I don't think so. I think next time if I see a cow vs. car and then another cow at night in a section of the road that is pretty much impossible for the cow to get out of without the danger of someone hitting it, I am going to put it down if it happens to be in the turnout. I sure hope that the 2nd accident didn't involve any injuries. Again, hindsight is an amazing thing isn't it?

 

[Libertarian]

Shooting the owner of the cows is a good idea too.

BTW, I'd of shot both cows. Prove it was my shotgun.

 

[dfaugh]

One word:

Lawsuit...I you'da shot the second cow, the owner could probably sue you for "destruction of property"blah, blah blah, or some such...Unless you could prove the cow was a "clear and present danger" blah, blah, blah...It sucks, but that's what its come to... You did the best you could have...

 

[IamNOTaNUT]

If the 4 of you were able to move the cow off the road, it must not have been a mature, ready to eat, piece of beef. Those suckers top 1300 pounds when they are ready for market.

As far as shooting a full size cow with a Glock 27, the only thing you are likely to do is annoy it. A shotgun, with buckshot, is not much better. A shotgun with slugs will get the job done eventually, but it will be messy.

I have two notches on my belt for shooting cows that presented a danger to the public. The first was with, you guessed it, 12 ga 00 buckshot. The second ( a black angus in the middle of the night, difficult sight picture to say the least) was with a 12 ga with slugs.

If I ever have to do this again, I am going to stop off along the way and get a .30-06. Cows are tough little buggers.

 

[DLL]

IamNOTaNUT,
My wife's uncle used to be a butcher. He lived in OK and people would call him and he'd go out to their property and butcher the cow right there. He used a .22 rifle to put them down. His wife video taped him working a couple of times and he showed me how it was done. He said you just have to know where to shoot.

 

[Oleg Volk]

Shooting that cow would have left a carcass on the road. I would suggest, in the future, to scare it off the road using either road flares or blank cartridges (I've convinced cows to move using 8mm Mauser shot into soft ground but that required about ten rounds for them to get the hint). Once it is off the road, I'd have placed flares on the shoulder (if not a fire hazard) and called highway patrol to get the critter removed entirely.

 

[Redlg155]

Hmmm..Let me think.

Destruction of Property in excess of $300.
Discharging a firearm on or across a public roadway.
Answering questions as to why you were carrying two weapons in your trunk at 9:30 P.M.

A safer bet would have been to put out a couple of road flares or warning triangles to warn potential oncoming vehicles. Warning triangles and First Aid kits were mandatory items in a vehicle when we were in Germany. When I came back stateside I kept with the practice.

If the Troppers and local Law Enforcement knew of the problem they should have dispatched a patrol car to the scene with the lights on to warn folks until they could deal with the problem. If I were the Gentleman who had hit the cow and found out the the Highway Patrol had known of the rampant cow problem I definitely would be crawling on someones backside! And you can bet my Insurance Company would be notified also in case they tried to charge me with the accident.

Good Shooting
RED

 

[C.R.Sam]

Reflecters yes.
Flares NO NO NO.
That is tinderbox country.

Without a badge, would not be wise to off the cow.

Sucks, been there, done that on a bike.

Sam

 

[Art Eatman]

Back when I wuz ranching just outside of Austintatious, I had problems with idjits running off the road and through my fence. Cows are absolutely fantastically smart about finding a hole in a fence.

For everything else, they're dumber than a Legislature.

Pragmatism sez to me that people are more important than cows. Middle of the night, lotsa traffic on a road, and no obvious hole in a fence to run cows back through? Run the cow to the ditch; "Bang!" and drive on and don't say nuthin' to nobody.

I was lucky at my place, but I would have been philosophic about somebody "disposing of a hazard". Not happy, but anything to avoid a lawsuit. Lawyers cost more than cows.

SFAIK, Presidio County, Texas, is the only one left with an Open Range legal deal. If you hit a cow, it's your fault. All other counties, it's the rancher's responsibility for cow-damages on a public road. (Which is why po'-boy operations don't brand or ear-mark. "That's not MY cow!")

Art

 

[IamNOTaNUT]

I've heard that cows can be shot and killed with a .22 as well. But I am not a butcher, and the prospect of approaching a torqued off 1300 pound beast in the middle of the night with a .22 goes counter to my natural instinct towards self preservation!

I think Oleg is on the right track, but his idea needs to be developed further. First you scare it off the road, then you whack it, and then you can use the road flares for a imprompteau BBQ!

 

[Ben Swenson]

I would suggest, in the future, to scare it off the road using either road flares or blank cartridges (I've convinced cows to move using 8mm Mauser shot into soft ground but that required about ten rounds for them to get the hint).

Curious you should mention this...
I usually shoot out in a smallish pasture where two cows spend some of their time. They are completely immune to the sounds of gunfire (everything from .22 to .45 to .223 to shotgun to 8mm mauser to 7.62x54R ... and more). They'll sit and stare dumbly at the shooter but don't seem to care that they are standing where we would like to shoot.
I've found that if you advance calmly and carry a sturdy stick they can be herded pretty easilly.
Same technique worked on a bull that got out of the field across the street from my house. He didn't seem impressed with me at all and rather ignored me until I found a nice stick ... that I really wasn't about to use on him - 1000+lbs of angry bull is quite a bit more than I am willing to take on with a chunk of wood (before breakfast, anyway). But he didn't know that.

 

[444]

I think this falls under the heading of: If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
As Art mentioned, cattle can and frequently do get loose. It isn't a good situation but it happens. If you live around or drive through an area where cattle are kept, this is always a possibility. It seems obvious that a fence was damaged and the cows were exploiting the opportunity to roam at will. This is just one of the many problems faced by farmers. Building a wall around their property would make the price of beef kind of high. For all you know, the farmer found out about it and was doing everything in his power to correct the situation. This is no reason to shoot the farmer or distroy his property. True enough, cattle shouldn't be in the road in most places, although as Art again points out, there are some places that have open range. How much responsiblility does the driver have ? You seem to elude to the fact that there was a guy right on your tail who wanted to continue to drive fast dispite the obvious danger. If he hits a cow, who's fault is that ? You need to be alert and drive at a safe speed for the conditions. If you are on a rural backroad or are driving through farm country you have to at least consider the idea that something may run out in front of you, or that you may come around a curve and find a slow moving tractor in front of you.
Let's say you shot both cows, then what ? Maybe you could find the hole in the fence and sit there and shoot all the cows that come out, in fact shoot the ones that don't come out because they might after you leave. Of course other animals run out in the road, shoot them because there is a danger ? A deer standing beside the road could dart out in front of you at any time. An elk could easily total a car and we can't have that. I have heard of people walking out in front of cars. In fact I have seen a couple dozen cases of it. Car was serverly damaged in most cases.

Just presenting the other side of the case, after all, it is no fun if everyone agrees.

 

[El Rojo]

For those of you who don't understand the Kern River Canyon and Highway 178, you are not going to fully understand this situation. It isn't as simple as a fence got cut lose, they just roam everywhere. I personally have never seen them in the road in the canyon before. More north of there where my camp I stay at, there are always cows on the road. The difference is where I usually see them, there is plenty of space to get off the road and for them to find other places to be. In the canyon, especially where I happened to be where I saw the 2nd cow, there is no space. You have a rock wall as the east bound margin, and you have a guard rail with a steep cliff and a raging river as the west bound margin. There is no room for the cow to get away. That is why I was concerned. When I finally got it onto the turnout, there was no where else for it to go, except stay in that turnout or continue on down the road back into the narrow blocked in area and right in the roadway. And whether people are hauling ass or not, the prospect of someone dying because there is a cow on the other side of a blind curve still doesn't let me rest easy, especially when I have the means to do something about it.

Yes it was a full size cow we DRAGGED off the road. It wasn't easy work and it took a few minutes. I know cattle. It was a big cow.

Explaining why I had two guns in my car is pretty simple. I have a CCW permit for my Glock 27 and my 12 gauge was unloaded in the trunk.

Has anyone shot a cow with double ought or slugs in the head at fairly close range before? I have a hard time imagining the cow being "annoyed". I have a better time imagining it being dead. Again it comes to shot placement, made easier at night by the Streamlight Stinger I always carry with me just for the reason of being able to illuminate my target. I would rather like to hear of people who did this rather than us talk about what we think would happen.

The main reason I took off is because hanging around on the side of the road on Highway 178 is the last thing I want to do. That road is busy, people drive fast, and there is no room to "get out of the way".

Oh well, nothing in the paper this morning about anyone dying, so I guess I did the right thing in getting the dead cow out of the middle of my lane and then moving on.

 

[Destructo6]

Killing livestock, not your own, is a felony isn't it?

Unfortunately, the local LEO's might not take into consideration that doing so was in order to avoid a possibly fatal accident (mainly, me riding a bike through there).

Then again, it could have charged you and you had to defend yourself. Ever watch Uncle Jimbo of "South Park" fame hunt?

 

[El Rojo]

The thing I have going in my favor for killing the cow is simple. I already dragged one cow out of the road, I talked to the driver of the now totalled mini-van, and then I see a cow in one of the most dangerous positions possible in the road. Establishing the reason for shooting the cow is going to be pretty simple. Cops aren't stupid. And in Kern County, they are pretty reasonable guys. I think they ended up shooting one of the cows anyway.

And yes I would have most certainly claimed, "It was heading right for me!!!"

 

[Wingshooter]

Around here, you honk the horn and a cow will follow you anywhere. Car Horn=Food to them since most of the ranchers have trucks out there with spreaders mounted to the back with range cubes in them.

Just honk that horn and those cows will follow you like the Pied Piper. Of course, I won't take any responsibility for what happens when those cows find out you're not gonna give 'em any food. Cows may be stupid, but they are the meanest animals on the face of the Earth. At least they were when I was a boy growing up in West Texas. I have scars, both physical and emotional .

I think that's why I enjoy beef so much, it really is the sweetest revenge .

 

[guyhammond]

shoot the cow.

Shoot the cow, just don't stand around afterwards with a gun in your hand.

Just drive away.

 

[Quartus]

For everything else, they're dumber than a Legislature.

Whoa! A new low in insults!





Rojo, I think I'da shot the 2nd cow. I've heard about the killer Kern Canyon. Sounds like a serious hazard to human life to leave that critter walking around.

But shoot and shut up sounds like good advice, too.

 

[johninaustin]

DO NOT shoot cows with buckshot. It will irritate the cow. The cow will then see you as the originator of it's irritation.

Not a good thing.

Anything short of a major rifle caliber or slugs is gonna get you in trouble. One rancher I know of kills feral cattle with a .284 Winchester. (He has a lot of Mexican cattle cross the border.) Takes more than one shot most times.

I have killed cattle with a 9mm, shoot them in the brain. This method involves getting to within a couple of inches and placing the bullet just so behind the ear. (gotta be perfect, a cow skull will deflect most handgun bullets) If you miss you are now standing right beside a very ticked off cow.

Just do like we do. Chunk a rock at it.

 

[radom]

I guess nobody has heard the term "as easy as hunting cows with a hammer" down there. I shure would not be shooting any cows too,darn good way to end up in jail. Just the basics of driving in a area like that and yes most most be idots that drive there after dark if they sail. What about deer? The Kern River area is one of the few places in the Nation that is almost always on every national weekly activity report too. Some of the folks there need a cow in the road and darn good riddance too. You name it and it happens there.