would you risk your life for someone else's property?

[Sequins]

Hello friends,

I'm housesitting for several weeks and a thought occurred to me... I know I'm here, but does anyone else? A casual acquaintence or walk-about prowler whom expected an empty house might be surprised to see me. An added wrinkle are two luxury cars in the front drive- let's face it you don't hire a housesitter for a house that holds no value. For all I know the safe, to which I do not have combination, holds gold bars of immense value.

My question is to what degree you would defend property in a house sitting situation, and what changes in strategy you may adopt?

My intuitive knowledge of the layout is poor, obviously I am in the house but if I hear a bump downstairs I have no confidence approaching any of the corners, and unlike my own home where I might go investigate I would instead default to sheltering in place. Another big change is that I would not take any effort to secure property in an emergency. In my own home I would run out with my gun if I saw someone smashing the window of my truck, but I would call the cops and wait it out in this case.

I am thankful that part of my duties include caring for a very large dog, whom I personally wouldn't want on my bad side, and I make him sleep in the bedroom with me. It's strange to be living for a month in a code orange environment so I wanted to make this thread and see what anyone else thought about defensive house sitting.

As a final note, the homeowners have used me as a sitter before and at first they left the back door open (sliding glass) so the dog could go in and out during the work day. Now, 6 months later, that door is always locked and every single block in the area has a neighborhood watch sign with very fresh paint, brand new signs. I think something happened so defense is on my mind.

 

[g.willikers]

This subject doesn't seem to come up for discussion much, if at all.
Verry interesting.
Probably the first thing to consider is the actual arrangement made.
What the home owners expect of you and what you have agreed upon should be clearly understood before taking the job.
In this case, it sounds like they should expect you to take care of the dog, be a backup alarm and not to throw wild parties.

 

[jmr40]

Just having someone in the home will discourage a lot of issues. I wouldn't risk my life for any property, but would defend myself if given no other option.

 

[psalm7]

So if you did stop a petty criminal you may prevent thier next crime . What furture crime could that criminal commit . Whos family could that criminal harm , maby your own ?
Its hard for me to let small things happen to save a confrontation but some times that may be the right action . At work I have to confront all kinds of people , just dealing with the public . At home I saved my neighbors lawn mower by meeting the thieves in the road . I did not shoot the truck like one officer said he wished I had done (to mark it) . I let them know I saw them and then called it in . Turns out it was a home invasion ring that was working 3 countys . Law enforcment had noticed a more agressive trend and was concerned what was going to happen when they hit a house and folks were at home . Several were hardened criminals some were just starting down that path .
Just a thought stop them now and you might save someone alot of grief in the future .

 

[OldMarksman]

Posted by psalm7:

So if you did stop a petty criminal you may prevent thier next crime . What furture crime could that criminal commit . Whos family could that criminal harm , maby your own ?

That possibility is not, in and of itself, a lawful justification for doing anything.

 

[cptjack]

Would not put my life on the line for my property or anyone else ,things can be replaced life cannot

 

[P-Factor]

I consider the USA as inherited property so yes, I have, and I will again if necessary.

 

[9x18_Walther]

1. Call 911.
2. Leave the house.
3. Use any means necessary to accomplish number 2.

Why would you risk bodily harm or death to protect replaceable material objects? This would go for any place I was at (my own or someone else's).

 

[BlueTrain]

I wouldn't risk my life for my own property much less someone else's. Kill someone for the television? Human life has gotten cheap lately, hasn't it? And none of it was inherited.

I recall sitting in a class in college 45 years ago (criminology or juvenile delinquency, don't remember which) and hearing someone suggest that the answer to the crime problem was to lock up more people. You may remember that Nixon made crime his big issue. Well, that happened and the prisons are full.

I've always wondered why crime control bills made more things illegal.

 

[psalm7]

I guess its all in what you are use to dealing with . I have detained and helped others detain many people committing crimes . Not as law enforcement but as part of my job at work .
I would not like to think that I minded my own business and knew a crime was being commited and the perp later escalated to a major criminal and harmed others .
Some times as I mentioned above the only thing needed is call the Cop's . Sometimes you may have to get rough . Iv done both . But Im not the type that just wants to escape and let the bad guy go . So far it works for me .

 

[osbornk]

I would do what would be necessary for my own safety or the safety of others.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Someone else's property - the answer is easy.

I defend myself and call the cops. As far as engaging, one might inform (safely) the bad person that you have called the law and they are on their way.

Other thoughts - tell the friends to get an alarm system. Have the alarm system have a control panel that allows you to sound a loud and obnoxious alarm from your location.

Someone breaking into your car - and just running out with a gun?

You might consider that charging out changes your name to MR. INCOMING TARGET. It might be better to challenge from a safer position.

 

[TXAZ]

^^^^ +1

Unless there's a serious threat to me, I'm not doing the red tape / paperwork required when you pull the trigger.

 

[Art Eatman]

To reduce the potential for problems, get a couple of inexpensive timers that let you have a TV on for some pre-set period and maybe short-term for a kitchen light. They create the appearance of people awake and moving around in the house.

 

[kilimanjaro]

I couldn't agree less with the premise that if I am not in my house, but the house of a friend, that I somehow should not defend myself or my friends from an intruder, or allow one to roam around inside without challenge.

Call the police, yes, don't confront unnecessarily, yes,

 

[JohnKSa]

I couldn't agree less with the premise that if I am not in my house, but the house of a friend, that I somehow should not defend myself or my friends from an intruder, or allow one to roam around inside without challenge.

The first part of your sentence is exactly on point. You should certainly defend yourself from the imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury regardless of where you are.

However, it is not true that allowing a burglar to remain unchallenged is equivalent to not defending one's self. For one thing, allowing a burglar to wander around in a house unchallenged does not automatically imply that you are in deadly danger and need to defend yourself. It is certainly cause for great concern, and a person would be well-advised to take steps to insure that the burglary does not become a deadly threat.

The advisable course of action would be to move to the safest area of the house to make a stand if necessary and call 911 to summon the authorities. If you feel the position is extremely safe then a verbal challenge that the authorities are on their way might make sense. If the position isn't very safe, it might be wiser to just keep quiet and wait for the police while maintaining a preparedness level that would allow you to immediately respond to any deadly threat effectively.

By the way, that's also the best course of action if you're in your own house.

 

[T. O'Heir]

"...I know I'm here, but does anyone else?..." Not unless you told 'em.
Relax. Criminals tend to be cowards and don't like breaking into places that are occupied. Hence the reason for your being there.
You're basically a security guard. Your job is to turn on the lights at dusk, let the dog out, bring in the mail/newspapers(that should have been stopped) and call police. You're not at Fort Apache.
"...why crime control bills made more things illegal..." Easier and cheaper to pass another law than it is to actually do something. Like, say round up all the gang bangers and other "known to Police" types.

 

[BigMikey76]

In my own home I would run out with my gun if I saw someone smashing the window of my truck, but I would call the cops and wait it out in this case.

Run out with a gun because someone broke into the car? Not on your life. Doesn't matter if it's my house or someone else's, the response is the same: stay inside and call the cops. If I can safely look out a window to get a description of the criminal or the getaway vehicle, I will do so, but leaving the house in that situation puts you in danger and reduces your defensibility in court if you do end up pulling the trigger. I'll certainly have my gun at the ready in case car theft turns into home invasion, but they are gonna have to bring that fight to me, not the other way around. Also, never underestimate the value of flipping on the porch light. Criminals rely on the cover of dark, and sudden illumination will often send them running. If it doesn't, then you have a clue that you are dealing with a more hardened and likely more dangerous criminal, which is all the more reason to stay inside and let the cops handle it.

In response to the actual questions in the OP, I wouldn't really worry about it too much. Take the first night you are there to get really familiar with the house. Figure out where the safest places are, and then relax. Just the fact that you are there reduces the likelihood of someone breaking in. Criminals look for tell tale signs of an empty house to make their lives easier: piled up newspapers, overfilled mailboxes, no lights on in the evening, etc. These things won't be happening with you there, so the house won't scream "target" like it would without you there.

 

[OldMarksman]

Posted by BigMikey76:

Run out with a gun because someone broke into the car? Not on your life. Doesn't matter if it's my house or someone else's, the response is the same: stay inside and call the cops. If I can safely look out a window to get a description of the criminal or the getaway vehicle, I will do so, but leaving the house in that situation puts you in danger and reduces your defensibility in court if you do end up pulling the trigger. I'll certainly have my gun at the ready in case car theft turns into home invasion, but they are gonna have to bring that fight to me, not the other way around.

Excellent advice!

Over the last several years, we have seen a number of reports here about people who gone outside armed to investigate a noise. In one case, a man lost his arm after being shot, and he was unable to work in his old profession after that.

 

[Slimjim9]

You said you are in a "code orange environment". Did you really mean that? Cooper says: "In condition orange, you have identified something of interest that may or may not prove to be a threat." I don't think you meant that. Yellow, yes.

At any rate, I'll add to the chorus of not risking your life to protect property. First of all, it isn't worth the risk. But almost as important is that it is illegal and if you shoot the guy who is hot wiring the Lexus armed with a brick and a screwdriver, you are going to jail.

I disagree with the "security guard" comment. You're not. You're there to watch the dog, make sure the toilets don't back up, empty the mail box, keep rotten food out of the fridge, etc.