BerettaCougar
New member
If this nation had more than one OFFICIAL language?
If different languages were taught earlier in a childs education?
If different languages were taught earlier in a childs education?
Would we be less American?
- Thread starter BerettaCougar
- Start date
JuanCarlos
New member
I'd say no. I don't think the English language defines America...in ethnic enclaves in our cities and in large sections of our countryside other languages have been spoken, for as long as we've been a country.
Really, I don't think whether or not we'd be "less American" is the way to go with this anyway...brings too many feelings, and too much nationalism, into the argument. It should come down to "better off" or "worse off."
And teaching other languages earlier in a child's education is a definite plus. Personally I'd rather see it not limited to simply Spanish and French...but I know funding is an issue there. I went to a high school (briefly) where German and Latin were both also offered, and I appreciated the choices.
Especially since from what I understand once one learns Latin it makes any of the Romance languages easier to pick up later. Alas, my freshman year we moved to a new school, where my only options were the standard Spanish and French. Though, in support of the above, I did get to see some of the similarities first-hand...I came in mid-semester into a Spanish class from a Latin class and didn't feel particularly far behind.
But I digress. Out of curiosity, if you're talking about adding actual additional official languages (or more accurately any official languages), which languages are you thinking? English/Spanish? English/Spanish/French? Throw German in, or Chinese?
Really, I don't think whether or not we'd be "less American" is the way to go with this anyway...brings too many feelings, and too much nationalism, into the argument. It should come down to "better off" or "worse off."
And teaching other languages earlier in a child's education is a definite plus. Personally I'd rather see it not limited to simply Spanish and French...but I know funding is an issue there. I went to a high school (briefly) where German and Latin were both also offered, and I appreciated the choices.
Especially since from what I understand once one learns Latin it makes any of the Romance languages easier to pick up later. Alas, my freshman year we moved to a new school, where my only options were the standard Spanish and French. Though, in support of the above, I did get to see some of the similarities first-hand...I came in mid-semester into a Spanish class from a Latin class and didn't feel particularly far behind.
But I digress. Out of curiosity, if you're talking about adding actual additional official languages (or more accurately any official languages), which languages are you thinking? English/Spanish? English/Spanish/French? Throw German in, or Chinese?
I think having a bilingual population is beneficial to any country.
I also think conducting public business (getting drivers licenses, voting, etc.) in more than one language is divisive to the country (look at Canada with it's English speaking provinces vs. the one French speaking provence).
Citizens should be free to speak whatever language they want but all 'public' business should be in one language - English in the case of the USA.
I also think conducting public business (getting drivers licenses, voting, etc.) in more than one language is divisive to the country (look at Canada with it's English speaking provinces vs. the one French speaking provence).
Citizens should be free to speak whatever language they want but all 'public' business should be in one language - English in the case of the USA.
Language unifies a population. It ties personal, business, civic, legal and governmental together. Language is cultural and a common, official language is able to tie together cross cultural, racial and even idealogical differences.
In example, what if this forum was bi-lingual. The French speakers, the German speakers and the bilingual speakers would be automatically be segregated groups be the simple ability to understand what the other group is saying. We still see Latin, Spanish, etc. get dropped in, and I'm certain that other members also speak other languages, but in order for this community to operate a common language has to be used. It is so obvious that no policy or rule had to be made that one language shall be used and that language is English.
English is the American language. Many other languages are also spoken in America and none are banned. But to relate, educate, to do business, and lead in America then English has to be used.
The more I ponder the question the more obvious it becomes. Would incorporating another nations language as a co-official language be less American is what the question comes down to. The answer is obvious.
In example, what if this forum was bi-lingual. The French speakers, the German speakers and the bilingual speakers would be automatically be segregated groups be the simple ability to understand what the other group is saying. We still see Latin, Spanish, etc. get dropped in, and I'm certain that other members also speak other languages, but in order for this community to operate a common language has to be used. It is so obvious that no policy or rule had to be made that one language shall be used and that language is English.
English is the American language. Many other languages are also spoken in America and none are banned. But to relate, educate, to do business, and lead in America then English has to be used.
The more I ponder the question the more obvious it becomes. Would incorporating another nations language as a co-official language be less American is what the question comes down to. The answer is obvious.
JuanCarlos
New member
Ah, I totally forgot to answer that part. I think having a single official language (which would of course be English at the moment) is probably the most beneficial. I don't think (as I stated) having multiple languages would make us any less American (since we speak English and, you know, "American"
) but I think it'd just be a largely unnecessary PITA (and expensive).Translation services (and translated documents) should only be provided in cases where absolutely necessary (I'd say the justice system would be an example, for a fair trial). Aside from that, government business would be best conducted in a single language.
Private business, of course, could be conducted in whatever language they choose. So we'd probably still be pressing "1" for English.
I wouldn't mind if all government business was limited to one language but such requirement should be limited to federal government only. If the entire state of Arizona becomes populated with enough legal hispanic citizens and they vote to have the official language of Arizona be spanish, let 'em.
Either way like JC said private entities still have the right to conduct business in whatever language they please. If I don't want to have any english in my store, I won't have any. But I believe it's the only language that should be on a US citizenship test...and it is unless you meet one of three very specific requirements (two age or one mental health qualifier).
Either way like JC said private entities still have the right to conduct business in whatever language they please. If I don't want to have any english in my store, I won't have any. But I believe it's the only language that should be on a US citizenship test...and it is unless you meet one of three very specific requirements (two age or one mental health qualifier).
conquer_all2002
New member
I think it would segregate people. This coming from a native Spanish speaker that learned english in ESOL classes. I was fortunate enough to move to a place were there wasn't a big Hispanic population. I think maybe my DL test was the only thing I remember taking in Spanish. This FORCED me to learn english. I needed it for school, work, friends, etc. Now I work in a part of Tampa where there are a lot of Cubans, and I speak Spanish at my job about 80 to 90% of the time. I couldn't tell you how many people have been negatively affected by having everything given to them in Spanish. And although I think it's bad they don't learn english I understand them. Had I been able to go about my life just speaking Spanish back in 1997 when I got here, I probably would not have put forth he tremendous effort it took to assimilate. But then again that would also mean I would probably be limited to low wage or physically demanding job instead of making a good living in my nice cool office. So no. I don't think it would make us "less American: but I do think we would be enabling rather than empowering existing and new immigrants.
Let it Bleed
New member
I don't think the U.S. has an official language. I know there has been proposed legislation to make english the official language, but I don't think it ever became law.
The Tourist
Moderator
This might sound kind of jingoist, but as you will see, I don't really care.
I was born an American. The reason that I have never been affected by ideas or customs of regimes of Europe or Asia is that as an American, it never meant anything to the schooling or work I was doing.
Whenever I heard some pencil-necked professor talk about a 'global villiage,' or a 'global economy,' it was always clear that this individual never really had any idea of what was going on off campus. His take of the world came from the reiterations of people who simply wrote the books he quoted--either Europeans themselves or supposed Americans that hated their country.
If this 'global' apparition was truly a being that walked among our men, sooner or later I would have met him. I would find his kind on a loading dock, helping me earn a living, or at a Harley shop, buying parts. He would occasionally select some pathetic song on a honky-tonk juke box and I could fight him or fight with him. He would wear blue jeans from a different part of the world.
But this person does not exist. He's a product of flim-flam set out to convince me to set some other course. I live in Wisconsin, I eat cheese, I cheer for the Green Bay Packers and I don't have a compulsion to convey any of my personal desires to a nameless face in Guadalajara.
I bought an oil pressure sending unit last week at the Harley shop. A mechanic volunteered to install it. We shared a coffee, I paid my bill and he bid me a good afternoon.
Never once in this entire exchange between man, parts, opinions of meteorology, pecuniary reimbursement or the disassembly of components to assure the quality of their metallurgy did we at any time speak Portugese.
If there had been a need during this obvious complex encounter, I feel it would have come up.
An oil pressure sending unit is an important part.
I was born an American. The reason that I have never been affected by ideas or customs of regimes of Europe or Asia is that as an American, it never meant anything to the schooling or work I was doing.
Whenever I heard some pencil-necked professor talk about a 'global villiage,' or a 'global economy,' it was always clear that this individual never really had any idea of what was going on off campus. His take of the world came from the reiterations of people who simply wrote the books he quoted--either Europeans themselves or supposed Americans that hated their country.
If this 'global' apparition was truly a being that walked among our men, sooner or later I would have met him. I would find his kind on a loading dock, helping me earn a living, or at a Harley shop, buying parts. He would occasionally select some pathetic song on a honky-tonk juke box and I could fight him or fight with him. He would wear blue jeans from a different part of the world.
But this person does not exist. He's a product of flim-flam set out to convince me to set some other course. I live in Wisconsin, I eat cheese, I cheer for the Green Bay Packers and I don't have a compulsion to convey any of my personal desires to a nameless face in Guadalajara.
I bought an oil pressure sending unit last week at the Harley shop. A mechanic volunteered to install it. We shared a coffee, I paid my bill and he bid me a good afternoon.
Never once in this entire exchange between man, parts, opinions of meteorology, pecuniary reimbursement or the disassembly of components to assure the quality of their metallurgy did we at any time speak Portugese.
If there had been a need during this obvious complex encounter, I feel it would have come up.
An oil pressure sending unit is an important part.
KenpoProfessor
New member
I complete agree with Bruxley, English is the language of the US of A. If made the OFFICIAL language, we could save millions of dollars on translators, translations in official documents, and the legal system. If Juan gets arrested and speaks nothing but Spanish, he is required to pay for a translator for his arrest and trial. I suppose lots of lawyers would learn to speak another language if this were the case, they could double their billing for translations and legal services. Wow, capitalism at it's best .
Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day
Clyde
.Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day
Clyde
JuanCarlos
New member
Great, except that A) citizens are not required to know English, and B) the Bill of Rights is not limited to citizens. This seems like it would probably end up violating the sixth amendment.
I think there are plenty of places where the government would be able to streamline by eliminating a vast majority of the translating overhead...but unfortunately I'd have to say that the justice system is one where it would still end up being necessary.
Especially since Juan may not be an illegal immigrant...he may well be a tourist from Spain.
BerettaCougar
New member
A few years back a local group did a study and claimed south Florida had the highest illiteracy rate in the nation....then a few months later it was declared to be flawed because 3/4th of the people the study claimed to be illiterate were able to read and write ANOTHER language...just because they did not speak English did not mean they were illiterate.
Which some people don't understand...
Which some people don't understand...
I think it's a good idea to conduct government business in one language, in America that's English. This business should certainly include ballots for voting. Can't read your ballot, too bad. I remember well entering a post office in CA and finding sample ballots in more than a dozen languages, 14 if memory serves. That's nonsense. And please, no interjection about Braille ballots. That would mean no signs in US Post offices that explain in Spanish how to buy US Postal Money orders to send funds to Mexico. No more bilingual road signs, unless they're community funded.
On the other hand, what is taught in schools should be up to the parents with children in those schools, even if English isn't taught at all, an unlikely event.
On the other hand, what is taught in schools should be up to the parents with children in those schools, even if English isn't taught at all, an unlikely event.
KenpoProfessor
New member
I don't care if you're ILLEGAL, legal, or a tourist here on a Visa, if you can't speak the language, you will be responsible to pay for your own translation services (you know, a tour guide). If a tourist gets arrested in the US of A, well, if he/she doesn't speak/write English, too bad for them. Like I said, I think there's a capitalistic aspect to this in that many lawyers would learn to speak multiple languages in order to garner more wages from their clients, or, they could just sub contract it out. Either way, it eliminates the burden of the taxpayers, and I think we would all enjoy less taxes .
Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day
Clyde
.Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day
Clyde
I have a cousin who married a Frenchman.
They lived, for several years, in one of the outlying districts of Paris. It was either the 17th or 18th arrondissement, but I don't recall exactly.
I visited them back in 1999, and they have since moved to the states so that they can actually keep some of the money they make.
But there she was, a young woman from a rural part of the American south, living in Paris, married to a French citizen, and soon pregnant with her first baby.
And you know what?
Those Frenchies actually expected, actually demanded that she actually learn French.
When she went to the doctor, they didn't translate into English for her.
When she went to French governmental offices, they didn't translate into English for her.
When she walked down the street to buy bread at the market, she was expected to conduct her business in French.
She was actually expected to learn French so long as she lived in France and enjoyed all the benefits of France.
Of course, in the United States, only narrow-minded racist, bigoted, homophobic xenophobes who probably live in Red States and who probably vote for neocons actually think that folks who come to the US need to actually learn English. (sarcasm alert, in case you don't get it).
Of course, the French are so much more sophisticated and educated and civilized than us gun-toting rednecks and cowboys, so it's fine and dandy for them to require immigrants to learn French, and have their children educated in French, etc. etc.
But just an experience from beyond the US regarding language.
possum.
They lived, for several years, in one of the outlying districts of Paris. It was either the 17th or 18th arrondissement, but I don't recall exactly.
I visited them back in 1999, and they have since moved to the states so that they can actually keep some of the money they make.
But there she was, a young woman from a rural part of the American south, living in Paris, married to a French citizen, and soon pregnant with her first baby.
And you know what?
Those Frenchies actually expected, actually demanded that she actually learn French.
When she went to the doctor, they didn't translate into English for her.
When she went to French governmental offices, they didn't translate into English for her.
When she walked down the street to buy bread at the market, she was expected to conduct her business in French.
She was actually expected to learn French so long as she lived in France and enjoyed all the benefits of France.
Of course, in the United States, only narrow-minded racist, bigoted, homophobic xenophobes who probably live in Red States and who probably vote for neocons actually think that folks who come to the US need to actually learn English. (sarcasm alert, in case you don't get it).
Of course, the French are so much more sophisticated and educated and civilized than us gun-toting rednecks and cowboys, so it's fine and dandy for them to require immigrants to learn French, and have their children educated in French, etc. etc.
But just an experience from beyond the US regarding language.
possum.
JuanCarlos
New member
See, and again I don't see how this would square with the sixth. It would impede the confrontation of witnesses, obtaining of witness, and communication with his counsel. Assuming they couldn't afford translation services, it would make defending oneself almost impossible.
At which point, just like counsel, it would become something that a majority of people ended up being offered at no charge.
Thus defeating the purpose.
Besides which, I don't think "less taxes" should be the goal of the justice system.
mooreshawnm
New member
I don't know if we can expect every one in the world to learn our language, English. That would be arrogance on our part I believe. However if an individual does not choose to learn the language of the land that he/she is going they should at least learn enough of the international language to conduct day to day business. The international language of course being ENGLISH!!!