Wolff spring kit for K-frame revolver?

[idek]

I have a S&W 66-7 revolver and am wondering about the Wolff spring kits.
I mainly use the gun for recreational shooting, but it potentially could be used for home defense. I've heard that for a defense gun, I should stick with the "type 1" kit which ensures harder primer strikes than the "type 2" kit.

Can anyone tell me what improvements I might expect? Also, is installation very difficult or require any special tools? And, ultimately, do you think it's worth doing?

 

[Zhillsauditor]

Changing to a Wolff full power mainspring should not affect reliability and is pretty easy. I've never felt much difference between the standard S&W mainspring and the full power wolff mainspring.

Changing the rebound spring is another matter. They can be difficult to install. I never got the hang of doing it with a screwdriver, so bought one of these instead:
http://www.gunsmithertools.com/smithmaster-trigger-spring-/

The stock rebound spring is 16#. Going below that can cause FTF, especially in double action. What you can do, though, is install the 13# spring, go to the range and run 100-200 rounds through the gun to test it. If it fails, go to the 14# spring and repeat testing. Then the 15# spring. Then, if that fails too, go back to stock factory. You could also lightly polish the rebound slide. I would not go any further than that with polishing, as you can really screw the gun up if you don't know what you're doing.

There are a lot of good videos on line dealing with spring changes. Use the right screwdriver bits to fit the screws so they don't get buggered up.

Finally, if you know of a good gunsmith in the area, it pays IMO to let them do a trigger job on the gun. My local guy does them for about $80 and the triggers come back sweet as can be and reliable as well. You save the money of the springs, and the hassle of learning how to put that bloody rebound spring back in the rebound slide.

 

[SgtLumpy]

Get the trigger job done first. Smooth trigger beats rough trigger with lighter springs any day.

Don't replace springs on a self defense gun.


Sgt Lumpy

 

[dahermit]

Can anyone tell me what improvements I might expect?

They sell "kits" with three mainsprings and trigger rebound springs in various weights. If you buy the kit with the heaviest springs, it is not likely (but possible nevertheless), that you will feel much if any difference.

Also, is installation very difficult or require any special tools?

Other than gunsmith's screw drivers, no but a rebound spring tool would be very handy. However, if you are good at making things, it is possible to make your own (as I have done).

And, ultimately, do you think it's worth doing?

Depends. If you want to learn how to lighten a S&W action and are willing to spend the time and money, have the requisite patients and delicate touch get Kuhnhausen's "The S&W Double Action Revolver", "A Shop Manual", and Jerry Micklick's book and have at it...it is your gun and being able to do something for yourself whether it be changing your own tie-rods and ball joints, or working on your own gun, is very fulfilling. If you are going to do it, do it right. With the relatively poor condition that I have found new S&W's (and Colt Autos), leaving the factory over the years, it is likely you would have to do a lot more than just swap springs.

As I remember, there were a few things not mentioned in either book that may be of value in smoothing/lightening a S&W double-action. Check the hammer to be sure that it is travelling square with the frame on its pivot. I have had new S&W's what had hammers flopping side-to-side on their pivots and actually contacting one side of the frame when firing. Hammer and trigger shims are available from Brownells to correct that. Also, no one (to my recollection), has ever mentioned the finish in the rebound spring tunnel...they appear to be somewhat rough on some new S&W's and may not allow the rebound spring slide smoothly inside. I use a small mandrel wrapped with 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper to polish the tunnel. I also polish the slots in the rebound slide where it contacts it's stop to assure smooth operation when it cycles back and forth.
Oh, also ignore anyone posting sage platitudes, platitudes while sounding pithy, convey no useful information.
A note: Beside Wolf Gun Springs, there was a company formerly in Michigan that moved to Florida called Trapper Gun Springs. I preferred their kits to Wolf's...they seemed to give a smoother and lighter trigger pull. However, they may or may not still be in business, you will have to do an internet search.

 

[Zhillsauditor]

Can anyone tell me what improvements I might expect?

You won't get much improvement on the SA trigger pull (which on a smith are usually just fine the way they are). The double action pull can be brought down a number of pounds. Problem is, as I stated above, you can get light strikes when it comes down too much from a spring change alone.

I always change my springs out on my revolvers. The key is to test them rigorously at the range with whatever defensive ammunition you intend to use in them. That's important. Don't go out and fire 200 rounds of winchester white box and think the gun works; fire 200 rounds what your life will depend on (which may be WWB).

This is true for any new gun (auto or revolver), too, not just guns that have been modified. A lot of people try to cheap out, but when you buy a gun you're going to depend on, plan on spending a couple of hundred dollars on ammunition right off the bat.

 

[redlevel42]

I have changed out springs in j-frame revolvers for shooters who have a tough time with the double action pull (my daughter and a friend's wife) but I have never seen the need to change out springs on a K-frame. All my K-frames are at least 35 years old and have wonderful da and sa triggers, so why fool with a good thing?

 

[Mike Irwin]

Almost all of my Smith revolvers have replacement Wolff springs, including my defensive handguns.

Once I change the springs out on a defensive handgun, it comes OUT of defensive rotation until I can get at least 100 or more rounds through it to ensure that it is still 100% reliable.

 

[dahermit]

but I have never seen the need to change out springs on a K-frame. All my K-frames are at least 35 years old and have wonderful da and sa triggers, so why fool with a good thing?

The reason you do not see the need is likely your frame of referance...the use for which you envision it be put to. Nevertheless, for purposes like rapid-fire double action, reactive target (falling plates etc.)fire and fast-draw shooting where the grip may not be all that consistant. Are both situations where a lighter double action pull has an advantage over "factory". Also, not all S&W's come with good trigger pulls...something to which I can attest. A gun that spends most of its life sitting in a nightstand awaiting something that may never happen, then it would likly not need an improved trigger pull. Or, if the gun were mostly shot in single action mode, that use would not likely require any work either.

 

[Tom Servo]

Smooth trigger beats rough trigger with lighter springs any day.

My thoughts as well. I've seen problems with the Wolff replacement springs.

Idek, how many rounds does the gun have through it? K-Frame actions smooth out quite well on their own with use.

 

[Chowder]

I love mine, I wrote up a DYI for it. http://sharpasamarble.com/Smith_Wesson_18-7.html

 

[rep1954]

I have a S&W Model 14-8 Classic that I changed to a Wolff full power main spring and a 13# rebound spring. I have at least 2000 successful rounds through it since it was installed. The action feels the same as it did the day I put the springs in it and it is my most accurate center fire revolver.

 

[redlevel42]

I see that most of you are referencing dash 7 and dash 8 guns.
Mine are all dash 2 and dash 3 revolvers, as well as a few "no-dash" guns.
Maybe that is the difference. I guess one would expect better craftsmanship in revolvers
manufactured 35-50 years ago, including better triggers.

The reason you do not see the need is likely your frame of referance
My "frame of reference" is self-defense, burning copious amounts of primers and powder at my range, some hunting, and just general revolver use. No games, other than ringing the steel, punching the paper, and rolling the cans.

The stock rebound spring is 16#. Going below that can cause FTF, especially in double action.
You mean FTF caused by the trigger failing to return? The rebound spring doesn't have anything to do with the force of hammer strike, does it? That is entirely a function of the mainspring, isn't it? When I installed the 13 lb return spring in my daughters 442, I dry fired extensively trying to "outrun" the trigger return, and was unable to do it. She was having problems with the second and subsequent shots. The spring replacement in the j-frame made a significant difference. She is able to maintain her grip for the subsequent shots much better. Again, I haven't found it necessary to replace/swap springs in my j-frames from the 60s and early 70s. No telling how many tens of thousands of dry fire rounds I have fired in the last 40 years, though, with my j-frames and k frames.

 

[idek]

Idek, how many rounds does the gun have through it? K-Frame actions smooth out quite well on their own with use.

I bought the gun used, and I don't know how much use it had before I got it, but I've probably only put about 500 rounds through it so far.

Someone mentioned "frame of reference" earlier, and that is part of the reason I'm asking for input. I just have the one revolver and is is the only revolver I've shot much. I know that single action feels very good, but it's hard for me to say if the DA trigger pull is too heavy or rough, since I have little means of comparison.

"smooth" is subjective to some extent, but I will say the DA pull weight is around 11 pounds. Would you say that's excessive? If so, would a spring kit help much?

 

[Chowder]

Idek, how many rounds does the gun have through it? K-Frame actions smooth out quite well on their own with use.

Although I did notice a bit of a difference with the wolf springs (may have been my mind playing tricks since it was lighter) I have to agree with this. The difference on my 18-7 was much smoother at 5k+ than when I bought it. I mentioned in my DIY that I linked that I decided not to polish anything since it pretty much polished itself though use.

 

[Zhillsauditor]

The rebound spring doesn't have anything to do with the force of hammer strike, does it?

Yes, you are correct. It does affect trigger reset, and I have seen problems with that.

 

[dahermit]

Quote:
The rebound spring doesn't have anything to do with the force of hammer strike, does it?

Yes, you are correct. It does affect trigger reset, and I have seen problems with that.

I should be noted that it would not be unusual for someone to swap-out the springs only to have problems with trigger reset and light strikes. However, that can be misleading. For instance, I have gotten new S&W's with hammers dragging on the frame when fired (you could also see the hammer "cock" to one side when viewed from behind in slow double-double action cocking), contributing to a light strike. Also, I have found rough trigger (and hammer) pivot bosses, roughness on the surfaces of the notch on the rebound slide, and other factors that could contribute to a slow or hanging trigger return. In short, it is the cumulative effect of many things that can effect hammer drop strength and poor trigger return. Therefore, it seem logical to change springs as part of an over-all trigger job, just not swap them as the only process and expect good results...but if one does, it becomes very easy to blame the spring-change.
Further, "...would rather have smooth rather than light...", is not an either or, you can have both.

 

[dahermit]

Someone mentioned "frame of reference" earlier, and that is part of the reason I'm asking for input. I just have the one revolver and is is the only revolver I've shot much. I know that single action feels very good, but it's hard for me to say if the DA trigger pull is too heavy or rough, since I have little means of comparison.

Being relatively inexperienced with the "care and feeding" or a S&W, you may wish to go ahead and swap the springs. They are not very expensive and you will learn about how the S&W double-action works. And, if there is a problem with the outcome, (light strikes, poor return), you can either; 1. put the original springs back in or, 2. take it upon yourself to do some studying (Kuhnhausen, et. Al.) to learn about improving the gun, or 3. leave it alone and use as is.
In the event you wish to pursue a better pull, I suggest buying the springs as "kits" that have several springs of varying weights.

 

[dahermit]

...K-Frame actions smooth out quite well on their own with use.

What about L and N frames? Or was that just an "Error of Omission"?

 

[Mike Irwin]

"I should be noted that it would not be unusual for someone to swap-out the springs only to have problems with trigger reset and light strikes"

I've swapped springs on maybe 115 S&W revolvers, my own and for friends and acquaintances, and I had maybe 10 that had trigger reset issues with the lightest spring in the Wolff pack, maybe 2 with the middleweight spring, and none with the highest rated spring in the pack.

In all cases, those issues were quickly resolved with a thorough polishing of internal surfaces, proper lubrication, and use of boss bearing washers for the hammer and trigger.

 

[idek]

Based on responses, I think I'll try the type one kit. I've installed kits in my 10/22s before and also put in shims from triggershims.com. They also sell shims for k-frame revolvers ($8 for a set). Any input as to whether shims are worth adding?