Wolf Ammo

[hansolo]

I've heard some bad things about Wolf Russian ammo: I also see a lot empty Wolf casings at my local range. I do not want to feed ammo that will possibly harm my extractor or any other part of my CZ 75B. However, a friend shoots nothing but Wolf in 9mm and .45.

Anyone have a problem with this steel cased ammo? I'm not expecting match-quality, but I don't want to take a chance on
harming my pistol

 

[twoblink]

The local range in that me an Skunk go to, they say "No Wolf Ammo" due to quality issues... I've never had a single problem with it out of my SKS, they are good 7.62x39 rounds, but I wouldn't put them through my 9mm or .45ACP. The SKS will digest (has digested) everything, with no exceptions. The wolf was DIRTY AS HELL... But it worked in my (now sold) SKS.

Winchester white boxes are cheap, I'd trust those in pistol calibers before I'd trust wolf...

 

[dcmorris71]

Here goes!

*putting on nomex for the flame wars*

I have fired almost 3000 rounds of Wolf .45 ACP through three different 1911A1-type pistols without a problem. People who have never fired it will tell you that even having a box of Wolf ammo in the same room will break your extractor or ruin your pistol completely. It may not work for everyone, but I do use it and like it.

It is pretty dirty, but nothing to be concerned about.

I also shoot Sellier and Bellot on ranges that don't allow Wolf -- otherwise, it's Wolf all the time.

 

[PsychoSword]

I would never shoot that **** out of any gun of mine. Aside from it being steel cased, which is harder on your gun, the factory uses a laquer that will build up in your gun in a short amount of time causing reliability issues and eventually a K'boom.

In other words, it's just not worth it when you can buy quality stuff like federal american eagle for $5 a box in 9mm.

 

[hansolo]

Ruski Ammoski

Thanks for your opinions...I usually buy Win. Whitebox, S&B, CCI/Blazer and am happy with them(I'm not an elitest 'cause I go through a lot of ammo!). I probably wouldn't try Wolf except that my friend gave up his 9mm and has a couple thousand rounds to sell cheap. Guess I'll try it....worst case scenario, it blows-out the extractor, I'll get another. I actually enjoy the cleaning process, so dirty-ness is no problem.

 

[PsychoSword]

You won't enjoy cleaning out laquer

 

[hansolo]

Hmmmmm. You have made good points regarding laquer build-up and steel cases. I appreciate your input I guess I look at using Wolf as a torture test, just to see what happens

Also, I need an excuse to aquire a new pistol, and ruining my current one would give me that.

Regards,

Steve

 

[Cee-Zed]

I would not put my pistols through such a "torture test." Let's put it this way; CZ-USA has expressly warned against using Russian commercial and mil surp ammunition. The CZ 75/85 series pistols have very tight chambers. The lacquer will do a number on them in short order. I don't care about nitro fouling myself, but cleaning lacquer out of a chamber is very difficult. It is a PITA on even something with sloppy tolerances, like an AKM clone.

That said, I have shot, shoot, and will shoot a lot of it in my SAR-1 and SKS. They do jes' fine.

 

[Caseless]

I just finished 1,000 rounds of Wolf 9mmP in my CZ 75B. 2 Failure-to-extracts. So the 9mm seems to work. But I did not buy these 9mm ammo. I had to excahnge my case of Wolf 40 S&W ammo for 9mm. One out of every 20 40 cal. rounds jams my HK USP 40 really bad.
If you always spend an hour to clean your CZ 75B after every range session, Using Wolf 9mm is fine. Otherwise, stay with brass cased ammo.

 

[chmeyers]

I've used Wolf ammo in .223, .45, 9 mm, and 7.62x39 without a hitch. I think the above comments regarding "laquer buildup", etc. are a bunch of BS. I've never had a problem with the ammo in numerous firearms and endorse it as an inexpensive means to shoot a lot. The only comment I've ever read about steel cased ammo is the possibility that it may scratch the chamber during the loading process. This has not been my experience, and I have never seen any reliable data suggesting the ammo is unsafe or injurious to firearms. If there are such data, please provide a link. Thanks.

 

[Cee-Zed]

The lacquer starts building up very quickly as the chamber heats up. You may not see it depending on your shooting style. If you get an SAR-1 hot enough, you are going to see it even on a "commie gun." There are reasons why the Soviets cleaned their rifles in things like kerosene and benzene. I have spent as much as three hours getting lacquer out of an SAR-1 when I let it go long enough. Granted, it was not impairing function, even then.

If you contact any manufacturer with a toll-free number, they will tell you exactly the same things. That was my experience with CZ-USA. People that I trust informed me that Ruger and Beretta gave them the same information. Either this is true, or there is an anti-Wolf conspiracy...

 

[Oris]

"There are reasons why the Soviets cleaned their rifles in things like kerosene and benzene. "

When I've been in the Soviet Army, we never used kerosine, and
of course, no benzene, to clean our weapons. Kerosine was only
used to remove grease, particularly if it hardened with time, or for cleaning of extremely dirty mechanical devices, in which case such device was just dumped into the can with kerosine, and then compressed air was applied to "dry it up".

In regard to lacquar build up - I have never seen this actually happening, even in pretty hot RPK we played with at one time.

Russian ammo does create extraction problem when fired in guns with chambers which are NOT mil-spec, because it is INTENDED
to be used in military type weapons only. This is a statement
I received from the director of Barnaul Factory, when I talked to him at ShotShow 2002.

In regard to pistol ammo - my CZ-7B has no problems
with 9 mm Wolf. 100 % reliable feeding/ejection/ignition,
pretty hot, can't say very dirty, accuracy seems to be
between fair and average.

 

[swatman]

I have used Wolf in the following firearms:
Glock 36
Glock 26
Glock 19
Llama 1911
SKS
Mak90
SLR-95
Ruger P-90
RomakIII

Number of failures: 1 ( dead primer)
Number of guns that were damaged/destroyed by Wolf ammo: 0
Number of times chambers got "stuck" due to "melting laquer": 0

 

[Cee-Zed]

Oris,

Thanks for the clarification. I had heard that cleaning with kerosene was the normal practice for removing lacquer. Is benzene not so-called "white gasoline"? I had heard or read that "white petrol" was also used. (I use kerosene to remove cosmoline.) Perhaps there is more internet hype than fact on this subject.

Seriously though, the manufacturers tell you not to use it. I can imagine that this could be a case of minimizing their potential warranty liability. If so, then they have all closed ranks, because they are telling consumers more or less the same things.

I personally have seen lacquer build-up in my SAR-1. At least, I can't imagine what else that clear, shiny, and gummy substance could be. No one makes me stand weapons inspection, so it may just take hundreds of rounds.

 

[Mad Man]

The local range in that me an Skunk go to, they say "No Wolf Ammo" due to quality issues.

I always suspected those policies were put in place because the range owners can't sell any of the Wolf cases they collect from the floors.

Less money for them...

 

[Cee-Zed]

I think Mad Man is definitely correct on that count.

Look, some people really have had problems with this stuff. If you don't, super. Shoot it to your heart's content.

 

[Oris]

Benzene, or sometimes, people call it "benzin(e)", is a common
word for gasoline in Europe. There is also a chemical called
"benzol", if I recall correctly, which is not a gasoline, but a
strong organic cleaner/thinner and also, very flammable and smells funny. May be it's what you mean?

 

[Foxy]

My friend used to shoot the Wolf .223 through his AR-15. He never had a problem with it, but he did mainly slowfire stuff. I ran a mag of Wolf through the AR as fast as I could. The next magazine, the AR-15 just quit working. We suspect the laquer build-up, but we're not sure how fast or how long you must shoot to cause it to happen.

 

[Preacherman]

I can only bring to the table a couple of comments from those who know better:

1. Clark Custom Guns in Princeton, LA told me that they love Wolf ammo, because so many guns have to be brought to them for repair after firing it! They reckon that AR15 firing-pins and .45 extractors are the primary casualties.

2. Olympic Arms posts, on their Web site, a warning against using lacquered ammo (the URL is http://www.olyarms.com/usa.html: click on the "Ammunition Warning" header). Some extracts:

"... lacquer coated ammo is clogging the chambers badly. ... What we are seeing is that once the chamber in the rifles gets hot, it is melting the lacquer off of the casings, and leaving a gelatinous goo in your chamber. Under continuous fire, this is usually not noticed, but once you stop, the barrel cools, the lacquer sets and you now cannot chamber and/or properly extract your ammunition. You will experience this in AR-15's much more frequently than other rifles such as the SKS and AK/MAC variants. In most cases the 7.62x39 rifles have chambers cut to the large end of the safety spectrum so that feeding and reliability is uncompromised by the type of ammunition or the consistency of the case dimensions. AR style rifles, and especially those from Oly Arms will have tighter chambers so that you can experience a greater level of accuracy that these rifles are capable of performing. ... Major brands of lacquer coated ammo we have seen are Wolf, most Russian ammo (even if it has the Remington head stamp), Norinco (or most Chinese) and most all former eastern block countries. ... Our recommendations: DO NOT USE LACQUER COATED AMMO. Otherwise, be prepared for the consequences. Additionally, most lacquer-coated ammo utilizes steel cases instead of brass. BAD FOR YOUR CHAMBER. ... The Consequences: Poor feeding, poor extraction, poor accuracy, and an impossible to clean chamber possibly resulting in a rifle that simply does not work. ... Is your rifle worth it?"

 

[Tropical Z]

I've used Wolf of various calibers in various guns and have never had a lacquer or extractor problem.If your guns extractor fails because of mild steel cased ammo it was going to fail anyway.