Winchester White Box - reloads????

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PolarFBear

New member
Happened to find some ammo at Walmart the other day; Winchester White Box 7.62X51. It was what I was looking for and the ONLY ammo on their shelves. Just opened the box and was taken aback. The brass looked like a gnarly reload, NOT factory new Winchester. To add to the mystery the cases are LC 21 with the NATO cross. Bought some reloads from Lone Mountain Ammunition at a gun show over the weekend. They too were mixed year LC but looked a LOT better.

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The Win White Box is on the left (lot WLC21J257-009). Looks like the case neck was annealed. The Lone Mountain reload is on the right.
 

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IMtheNRA

New member
Unless you see extractor marks on WWB, they're not reloads. Looks like relabeled LC ammo, which is common with big brands like Win and Fed. Depends on who has the current LC contract.
 
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Unclenick

Staff
All military brass has the annealing stain left on the case per military requirement (so they can see at a glance that it was annealed when it was made).

A lot of military ammo is made on contract. Federal, for example, makes brass that says LC on the headstamp. Winchester might have done the same, and the annealing stain would then have to be left visible, while commercial brass normally has it polished off.

The tell will occur when you fire and reload it. Around the primer is the mark of a ring crimp. If the primer comes out with no resistance and another primer fits right it, then the original crimp was removed and you do, indeed, have "remanufactured" ammunition. But if it is crimped and you have to remove the crimp to reprime it with normal effort, then it is probably new ammunition in contract cases made by Winchester.

The other possible tell is that the primers are nickel-plated. Winchester stopped doing that a while back and their primers are brass colored now (unless they change it again). In that case, these may be primed with CCI#34s or they might have been made on contract for Winchester and Winchester has only put their name on it. Military primers are not plated, either, so these are not military rounds.
 
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PolarFBear

New member
UNCKLENICK. When I made the purchase I "expected" to see a Winchester head stamp. I was surprised and have learned! The primers on the Winchesters ARE un-plated brass. The primers on the "bonafide" reloads are nickel plated. Thanks for the input.
 
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PolarFBear

New member
TXNimrod. It IS the lighting. The "true" reload, on the right in the photo, definitely has a plated primer. Win IS brass. Loaded 1,000 of pistol loads with both types. These "new" Winchester loads must be military excess or overruns and Win decided to pack them up for retail customers.
 
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IMtheNRA

New member
LC "overruns" are an internet myth and wishful thinking. LC ammo sold on the commercial market are most likely QC rejects and start-up production runs. By the looks of that round, I'd go with QC rejects in this case.
 
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Unclenick

Staff
More importantly, as I mentioned, military primers, like Winchester primers, are not plated either. So those are neither military rounds nor Winchester new manufacture. They are either reloads or loads put into either pull-down or overrun military brass.

Most military ammo you buy is ammo past its stockpiling age limit. It is usually still good but should be shot up, as the powder is aging. Overrun brass does appear at times. I have a couple thousand new and never-loaded LC 5.56 made and sold as new by Federal who apparently decided to overrun their LC sub-contract quantities while the tooling was still set up. I also have about 1000 pieces of LC MATCH with the light web cannelure that was intended for 7.62 M-852 originally and that was sold off by the CMP back in the '90s, that was apparently left over when M852 was obsoleted.


TXNimrod,

The way I read PolarBear's post is to say that actual new-in-box (not white box) Winchester brand ammo has unplated primers, while this white box stuff has plated primers.
 
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TX Nimrod

New member
… TXNimrod, The way I read PolarBear's post is to say that actual new-in-box (not white box) Winchester brand ammo has unplated primers, while this white box stuff has plated primers.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying, I’m still confused by his posts…..




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higgite

New member
The way I read PolarBear's post is to say that actual new-in-box (not white box) Winchester brand ammo has unplated primers, while this white box stuff has plated primers.
Click to expand...
Confusion reigns, but the way I read it is OP bought new Winchester White Box (aka WWB) ammo at Walmart that had unplated primers. He also bought some reloads at a gun show (no mention of box color) that had plated primers.
 
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Paul B.

New member
Didn't Winchester get the contract to run the LC plant not too long ago? Seems I read something recently about that.
Paul B.
 
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Unclenick

Staff
Higgite,

I don't think so. Go back to the original post at the top and read the first two sentences. He bought Winchester White Box at Wally World because it was the only 308/7.62 ammo they had at the time and was shocked to find what looks like reloads inside.


PolarBear,

On reflection, this is odd enough that I would call Winchester or use their support contact form with the box numbers and ask do they sell "remanufactured ammo" as their Winchester White Box ammo? They may say they do not, in which case they will want to be aware that a third party may have put this stuff on the shelves using their packaging, or may have told Walmart he was "returning" previously purchased ammo to get a refund, but actually had shot the White Box up or found the packaging and stuffed his own work inside to get ahead on the deal. I would be personally disinclined to trust it until you can confirm Winchester did this.
 
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higgite

New member
Unclenick,

I was taking his statement "looked like a gnarly reload" to only mean that it looked like it, not that it actually was a reload. I'd be surprised, too, to find reloads in a WWB box at Walmart. I suspect it was just some old stock that someone in the supply chain found stashed in a warehouse, but who knows nowadays. Would be interesting if the lot number could be tracked back to the date of manufacture.
 
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PolarFBear

New member
Higgite: I bought two boxes of WWB. There were about 15 boxes on the shelf. They looked identical. All were head stamped LC21 with the NATO circle cross. I'm sure it's all OK ammo but when I buy Winchester I EXPECT to see a Winchester head stamp and bright shiny brass. The Lone Mountain reload, pictured on the right in my original post, looked a LOT better.
 
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Unclenick

Staff
My point remains: I would double-check with Winchester that they ordered this done. Given the shortages, they may have, but clearly, those are not their primers or normal brass, and they may not have made the bullets if they are subcontract work. I would ask.

Winchester did beat out the former ATK and Remington for the new operations management contract for Lake City. Those go up for bid again every several years. What, if anything, that means for what components they sell commercially remains to be seen.
 
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