Winchester Ranger-T

9

9x18_Walther

New member
I like Ranger-T and HST, but as most know Ranger-T is not sold to public retailers. It's "restricted" to Law Enforcement.

It looks like the flow of Ranger-T ammo has ceased at the major online resellers.

Anyone know a good source and maybe a reason for the shortage (I'm thinking a crackdown by Winchester, but who knows?)
 
9

9x18_Walther

New member
Is that the same as the old "Black talon?"
Click to expand...

Time for the old story I suppose.

LE agencies tend to use four types of JHP rounds:
Remington Golden Saber
Speer Gold Dots
Federal HST
Winchester Ranger-T

The Golden Saber, Gold Dots, and HST are available for civilian sale (in those 20-round boxes you see at stores). They are sold to LE for a premium in 50 round boxes. All of these rounds are typically unbonded (with bonded versions available) except for Speer Gold Dots.

In regards to JHP expansion, Federal HST and Winchester Ranger-T (in their unbonded varieties) have the best expansion of any commercial round IMHO.

Although HST and any of these other rounds will suffice, I still like the Ranger-Ts since I know a lot of LE around me use it. Mas Ayoob and others recommend to carry what your local LE agency uses (shouldn't actually be an issue however). Unfortunately, Winchester doesn't sell Ranger-Ts in stores, its for LE only. This isn't a legal thing, its Winchester policy.

In 2000, Winchester stopped sales of the "Black Talon" for both civilians and LE. They made some updates to the bullet design and sold it as the Ranger SXT. Winchester's Ranger line is sold to LE only. The bullet was updated once again in 2007 and became the "Ranger-T" (still not for public sale).

Winchester's current premiere self-defense round for civilians is PDX1. PDX1 is a good round but it is bonded and doesn't provide the expansion which the unbonded Ranger-T does. Ranger Bonded is actually the exact same thing as PDX1.
 
9

9x18_Walther

New member
I have seen Ranger T for sale to the public.Gun Broker,SGammo etc..
Click to expand...

Key word there is seen...

It just seems like in the past year, the entire supply has dried up. No website seems to have it in stock ever.
 
O

ohiomossyoak

New member
9x18_Walther said:
Key word there is seen...

It just seems like in the past year, the entire supply has dried up. No website seems to have it in stock ever.
Click to expand...
b5471d1776415e48e42c3b40ecdbf038.jpg
 
9

9x18_Walther

New member
Whoops.

I guess I should be more specific. You can certainly buy this stuff from gun shows and online auctions but its way overpriced and usually is +P+ or bonded.

sgammo, Target Sports USA, etc. use to carry this stuff at the price level of HST. I'm pretty sure the people on the auction sights have had this stuff sitting for a while waiting to make a profit.
 
S

skizzums

New member
I haven't bought a box of factory ammo in a few years now, but I thought about 1$ a round was the normal for "premium" self-defense ammo. I actually thought it was more like 25$ for a box of 20, but maybe those were just old panic prices.
 
9

9x18_Walther

New member
I haven't bought a box of factory ammo in a few years now, but I thought about 1$ a round was the normal for "premium" self-defense ammo. I actually thought it was more like 25$ for a box of 20, but maybe those were just old panic prices.
Click to expand...

Online, I find that the prices for good JHP (except Ranger-T) is about $0.50 a round (9mm). The Ranger-T used to be about $0.60 to $0.75 a round.

I'd be okay with $1.00 a round (like one of the previous posters) found on an auction site, but this is eventually going to dry up if the online stores aren't getting it in.

Note that the majority of Ranger ammo being sold is either +P+ or bonded (PDX1). Demand for these types is low since nobody wants them.

Buying JHP in stores is crazy. A big hunting/sporting goods store wanted something like $39 for a box of twenty .45 ACP Golden Sabers. Those boxes are $12 online.
 
9

9x18_Walther

New member
Update:

After extensive searching, I think I figured out what has happened to Ranger T.

I guess in the past when LE sales were stagnant, Ranger T was sold to distributors for civilian sale even though it was against company policy.

Apparently, Winchester informed these retailers that Ranger T will no longer be sold to distributors for civilian sales - period.

End of story. No more Ranger T (at least in bulk).

This really sucks. I can understand companies not selling the 50-round LE boxes because (Federal for example) of the crazy profit they make on a box of 20, but unlike all of the other LE rounds, no version of Ranger T exists on the civilian market. :mad:
 
W

Wishoot

New member
No need to fret too much about which ammo your local law enforcement officials use. 147 gr HST's are out there and cost about the same. And I'm sure it's been adapted by more than one US police department.
 
F

FairWarning

New member
Enough effort and persistence online will pay huge dividends in your ammo quest. :D

Ranger T is rarer than HST or Gold Dot, but does appear from time to time in bulk.

I did not know that PDX1 is essentially the same as Ranger Bonded, but that's good news, since Winchester never made a 125 gr Black Talon in .357 Mag. The PDX1 in .357 Mag 125 gr is a slightly reduced velocity (1325 fps in assumed 4" barrel) load and you can definitely see the Talon family resemblance. :cool: I have two 7-shot speedloaders on standby for my 686P.
 
9

9x18_Walther

New member
I did not know that PDX1 is essentially the same as Ranger Bonded, but that's good news, since Winchester never made a 125 gr Black Talon in .357 Mag. The PDX1 in .357 Mag 125 gr is a slightly reduced velocity (1325 fps in assumed 4" barrel) load and you can definitely see the Talon family resemblance. I have two 7-shot speedloaders on standby for my 686P.
Click to expand...

PDX1 is a good round except for self-defense, I'd much rather have expansion over barrier penetration. I can understand why law enforcement would carry bonded ammunition since they might have to shoot through glass, walls, etc. but for some reason bonded ammunition is now being pushed by a lot of companies (take Hornady for example) for self defense which honestly doesn't require good barrier penetration since most shots taken are going to be at close range.

I have a hunch that the "talons" (which are actually larger in the latest generation bullet used in Ranger T compared to the original black talon and later SXT) probably creates a PR nightmare for Winchester.

While the whole deal surrounding Oscar Pistorius is certainly not an example of a justified self-defense shooting, the courts and media continuously brought up the fact that he used Ranger ammunition in his pistol.
 
F

FairWarning

New member
9 x 18 Walther said:
While the whole deal surrounding Oscar Pistorius is certainly not an example of a justified self-defense shooting, the courts and media continuously brought up the fact that he used Ranger ammunition in his pistol.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the elites would prefer that we peasants carry only antiquated round nose lead ammo for any caliber. :eek:

Won't stop me from carrying LE grade ammo, although I can definitely see how RIP ammo could have a negative impact on your SD trial. Not to mention that it doesn't appear to have been proven to work well overall.

I don't have the slightest concern that PDX1 .357 Mag would take care of business if needed, including massive expansion and energy transfer. Virtually all of the other top ammo today is likewise bonded. It is apparent however that many internet Commandos are far too concerned with barrier penetration, which has fueled millions of forum posts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top