Winchester 185 Silvertip .45acp

denfoote

New member
I'm using (currently) the above mentioned round in my G36.
I was wondering if anybody knew where some ballistics testing data was!!
I posted the question on the board of a (in)famous firearms author and balistics tester.
It seems that, as old as this round is, he has never fired it into gelatin!!!! :eek:

Anybody know how this old timer performs??
 

cocojo

New member
denfoote, I have always liked this round, but it is an old design. There are much better rounds out there. The round does expand nicely but I feel it comes up short on penetration. If my memory serves me right, I believe it was about 9 to 10 inches in ballistic gell. I guess it depends on which school of thought you adhere to. I like penetration, expansion and weight. The all copper barnes DPX style bullets are light but go in deep from Taurus and Corbon in 45. I don't know if Winchester changed the silvertip design for the 45 or they are still using aluminum jackets. I know they have changed other rounds to copper jackets and are nickel plating them. The round I am refering to here is the original designed silvertip 45. The silvertip is still a good round and it does expand. If your confortable with it and it works in your gun for you, then why not use it.
 

cocojo

New member
denfoote: I knew I had some data on this round. It's old data from 1989 FBI wound ballitic testing program. Gun used was a S&W 4506. Winchester 45 ACP Silvertip 185.
Bare gell penetration was 10.25 to 11.50. Expansion was .725 to .863. Heavy cloth penetration 10.25 to 11.50. Expansion .698 to .748. This was smallest to largest in five shot tests.
20 yards testing was heavy cloth penetration 11.75 to 12.50. Expansion was .715 to .745. This round did better at distance. Velocity averaged 951 from S&W 4506. Test barrel velocity was 999 both guns had five inch barrels. The round I was most impressed with in my G36 was Federals 230 tactical +p round. This round was unreal, expansion was tremendous and penetration was deep. Ranger T 230 also was a super round. Hope this helps you. I have more data on this round on steel and auto glass if you want it.
 

denfoote

New member
COCOJO,

For an old design it seems adequate for my needs.

I have a thing for the old rounds.
They have been tested and have all the bugs worked out!!
I use Federal original Hydroshok in my 5" barreled .45s.
I picked the Silvertip because lighter weight bullets work better out of a short barrel.
 

cocojo

New member
denfoote: I went to a local gun shop today and checked the new 185 silvertip. This is a new design and it is not aluminum anymore. This bullet was a nickel coated copper jacket bullet. I have no idea what the performance of this new round is. The spec I gave you here was on the old design. My feeling is that the newer round would not expand as much, and probable penetrate more, which isn't a bad thing. I have seen some info on the 185 silvertip in the GAP round. Which would probably do the same thing. I don't know what round you use, but the silvertip definately has changed. Anyone checked this round out, I would like to know myself it's performance.
 

texmex

New member
Silvertip performance in the real world

I shot a 5'6" 130 pound guy twice with 185 Gr. Silvertips out of a Colt Commander. The first round hit the middle of his chest and exited his right armpit. The exit hole was about the size of a half dollar. He later stated that he did not know he had been shot until he started to feel kind of weak after about 15 seconds.
About that same time, I shot him in the middle of the back. That bullet had to go through a side window and the car seat to get to him. It expanded quite a bit but only penetrated about 4 inches. He stated that it felt like someone hit him in the back with a hammer. It really hurt. He decided to give up and stopped the stolen vehicle he was in. He threw out his weapon when directed to do so over the PA. At our direction, he exited the vehicle with his hands up and stood up. There was a lot of blood on his shirt, but he was not incapacitated.
I felt like the expansion was good but the penetration was marginal. In my opinion, heavier 45 ACP bullets give better penetration while still expanding well. I'd choose the 230 gr. Gold Dot or Hydro Shock. 45 is pretty big to begin with. Lots of the old timers carried hardball when I first started in law enforcement (1974) just to ensure adequate penetration. It wasn't uncommon to alternate hollowpoints and hardball in a magazine so a double tap would give you the best of both worlds. Some guys carried hardball as the first and last rounds in a magazine since those two seem to be the most likely to have problems feeding. Some guys carried hollowpoints in their weapon and hardball in their extra mags thinking that after the first 8 rounds, the bad guy would most likely be behind cover such as back inside his vehicle.
Nowadays, I carry 357 Sig 125gr. Gold Dot by choice. That's backed up by an AR-15 which is definitely what I'd use if I have any advance warning.
 

Hotdog1911

New member
Tf

www.tacticalforums.com. They really do beat this issue alot.

I was reading something on Smith & Wesson forums on a closely related topic. The author works in the Atlanta Morgue. He had some great stories.

He convinced me.

Good luck, Grasshopper. (ref. kung-fu, David someone, cica 1974)
 

cocojo

New member
Mete, this is old info which I already have. The new silvertip is not the old silvertip. The newer version has a copper jacket with a nickel coating. It has a wider hollow point. Anything of the past is going to be different. I have some older aluminum rounds they are different from the newer version. I don't know which round denfoote has but the newer rounds are way different. So any silvertip data of the past is only good if that's the round you have, which is no longer made. Love to see what the newer round will do. I believe that the new 45 Gap silvertip is exactly the same and the newer silvertip. Performance should be the same, the bullet is the same, along with the velocity.
 
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