wikihow- how to react to gunfire. thoughts?

[troy_mclure]

http://www.wikihow.com/React-to-Gunfire

igoogle's wikihow tab had this all day today. i think its pretty well written, and definitely not by an anti.

what are your thoughts on the article?

 

[orionengnr]

If you have incoming fire, respond appropriately.

"Hiding" is not (IMHO) an appropriate response if you are armed...
Following the lengthy decison tree provided would require a printed checkist...which few of us will study or carry.

Cliff notes: If someone is shooting at innocents and you are armed, do something about it if you can.

First rule--survive the encounter.
Second rule--neutralize the aggressor.
Third rule--let the legal system decide who did what was right. Yes, it is a variable, but at least you are alive to see the outcome...

 

[dannyb]

I disagree with the comment that if you detect gunfire in a building you should not leave. I think that the best thing that you can do is leave the building if the shooter is not directly covering an exit.

In school shootings, the highest casualty counts come from people hunkered down trying to look small while the shooter sorts his way through them. I heard a school administrator say that it's important to stay in one place so that they can get an accurate count of how many students have escaped. My opinion is that's it's better to be alive than to be counted. Get out, survive, call in once you have exited the area. Your folk will be happier that you are still alive even if they worry for a while because you weren't accounted for initially. They will be crushed if you are accounted for as the third body under a sheet to the left.

 

[BfloBill]

+1 dannyb

Hiding in a room during a school or workplace shooting just gives the shooter more time to locate you and finish you off while the authorities respond. This isn't speculation, unfortunately it has been proven.

Even accomplished shooters have more trouble hitting a moving target- SO MOVE!!!

 

[Boatme98]

Yes, cower and be counted reminds me of when I was just wee bairn.."Get under your desk and cover your head". Right. I was on an AF base and we had missles all around. Even at that tender age, we knew we were toast if the Russians launched first. Sitting and waiting is not a defense.

 

[Nnobby45]

In school shootings, the highest casualty counts come from people hunkered down trying to look small while the shooter sorts his way through them. I heard a school administrator say that it's important to stay in one place so that they can get an accurate count of how many students have escaped

Sorry about the lack of specific details, but, a while back, I read an article about a school administrator back east who said that children were advised to stay in one place because it wasn't fair that some children might have the initiative to escape while other students did not.

Apparently, the same principle applies to life saving action as it does to the school curiculum in general. No one should excel. Mediocrity for everyone--including action that could save a childs life by simply going out a window or making a run for it. Just isn't fair that some children might survive and some not.

Now I've got my blood starting to simmer again at the thought of the liberal, progressive, mediocrity spouting, left wing, self esteem promoting gas bags who run many of our school systems.

If you hear gun fire in a building, then getting out makes lots of sense. On the other hand, if people are being obviously murdered, then that's a call all of us hope we'll never have to make.

 

[MikeNice81]

If you are in a building get away from that building. Hunkering don is not a sure fire way to be safe. If you have no good way to barricade your position it really isn't going to help much.

Keep away from windows. Cover can include situating yourself behind a large machine such as a photocopier or behind bulky furniture.

Keeping away from windows is a great idea. Using a copier for cover isn't. A bullet is going to have little trouble getting through a copier. Do you really think that a copier is any more bullet resistant than a steel car door? Maybe if the bullet hits the right spot it will be deflected or stop. I wouldn't bank on it. I've shot completely through cinderblocks with 124gr+P 9mm and 147gr 9mm. I don't think a copier is much sturdier than a cinderblock.

It isn't a bad article. It will help some people that had no idea what to do.

 

[Crazy88Fingers]

Let's remember that there are relatively few things in the average office that will stop a bullet. But cover is still good for hiding your position. It's significantly harder to shoot something you can't see. Also...

In school shootings, the highest casualty counts come from people hunkered down trying to look small while the shooter sorts his way through them. I heard a school administrator say that it's important to stay in one place so that they can get an accurate count of how many students have escaped. . .

When I was in middle school a (hoax) bomb threat was called in. Of course the plan was to get everyone INSIDE the building while police searched for the bomb that was also allegedly INSIDE the building. It didn't make sense to me then, and it still doesn't today.

 

[r_magill]

Hiding in a room during a school or workplace shooting just gives the shooter more time to locate you and finish you off while the authorities respond.

+1.

I remember reading a book by, I believe it was, Lt.Col. Dave Grossman, who made the point that in an active shooter situation the occupants of the building should flee if at all possible. He also made the point that the only advantage to a "lockdown" is that if and only if a person is in a position where they cannot escape, being in a locked room or area might gives the occupant a few more seconds to do come up with a plan or wait for a good guy with a gun to show up. In other words, hiding during an active shooter situation only serves to delay the hider's death, whereas fleeing keeps the occupant alive.

Yet, for some reason, school administrators love the idea of locking down buildings/areas. Why this is I have yet to really understand.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Some shooting rampage instructions have been for everyone to get into one corner and huddle together in a big mass.

Sounds like a plan. I suppose I could arrange to be on the bottom of the pile of human shields but then I'd probably smother to death.

Being in the business - know this - most schools practice nothing useful and have no real plans for response. The plans are for after action liability control.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I can see problems on all sides of this issue. The problem, as in Columbine (here in Denver) was that nobody implemented any definitive action. This is one that there isn't a specific answer to. The OODA loop (observe / orient / decide / act) moves most of those with training. But those who've never been trained or faced any type of mind bending situation, like most teachers, are going to freeze. I honestly believe that's why the shelter in place was implemented. You simply can't ask someone who's never been in the **** to take control and make good decisions.

 

[T. O'Heir]

"the how to manual that you can edit". You really think that's a good place to get training?
"...school administrator back east who said that..." Makes you wonder how they get hired with no brain.
"...few things in the average office that will stop a bullet..." The Nun could stop a bullet with a glance. She could stop clocks too. snicker.

 

[egor20]

The Nun could stop a bullet with a glance.

Ahhh... another survivor of Catholic School.