I had suspected that the more recent style of internalized firing pins require a heavier mainspring tension to ignite the rounds. The actions on my older guns seemed to function well at lower weight pulls compared to the new guns. Recently I read at Weigand's website that the internal firing pins do need 25% more tension to work. Why was the firing pin changed? Thanks.
Why the firing pin change on S&W?
- Thread starter e'ville
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
The rimfires and guns with fully enclosed hammers have been using frame mounted firing pins for years. It's probably a way of standardizing firearms across the board to reduce inventory.
I don't much care for it myself.
I don't much care for it myself.
VictorLouis
New member
Well, I broke a hammer-nose once, though it was easily replaced. I see it as an improvement in durability, but perhaps it doesn't really matter.
I had a hammer-mounted firing pin on an old K-Frame sized Rossi .357 break. Twice. Probably the gun, I had it fixed one more time then sold it cheap.
Frame-mounted firing pins are definately tougher and allow a transfer bar safety instead of a hammer-block system. The transfer bar is also considered slightly tougher.
It's possible to get a good trigger out of a transfer-bar, frame-safety DA revolver. I have a J-frame sized Charter Arms Undercover like that that was clearly massaged by a good gunsmith at some point before I found it on the bargain table. Good gun, real good trigger, smooth with a slight stack right at the end of stroke.
Jim
Frame-mounted firing pins are definately tougher and allow a transfer bar safety instead of a hammer-block system. The transfer bar is also considered slightly tougher.
It's possible to get a good trigger out of a transfer-bar, frame-safety DA revolver. I have a J-frame sized Charter Arms Undercover like that that was clearly massaged by a good gunsmith at some point before I found it on the bargain table. Good gun, real good trigger, smooth with a slight stack right at the end of stroke.
Jim
e'ville,
I have a good buddy who knows allot about S&W revolvers. He built the first 8 shot N frames and was hired by S&W to advise them on building their 8 shot PC guns. What this guy knows about revolvers(and guns in general) blows my mind.
I asked him if the internal FP guns were harder to get a good trigger on and he said no. He said you can get just as good of a trigger on the newer guns as the older ones.
Interesting what you read about Weigand and his comments. I will have to ask him about it when I get a chance.
I have a good buddy who knows allot about S&W revolvers. He built the first 8 shot N frames and was hired by S&W to advise them on building their 8 shot PC guns. What this guy knows about revolvers(and guns in general) blows my mind.
I asked him if the internal FP guns were harder to get a good trigger on and he said no. He said you can get just as good of a trigger on the newer guns as the older ones.
Interesting what you read about Weigand and his comments. I will have to ask him about it when I get a chance.
e'ville,
I've purchased 5 S&W revolvers recently, 2 have the frame mounted pin, and have done "trigger jobs" on all of them.
Trigger jobs were really just a way to speed up the normal smoothing that comes with lots of shooting by replacing some springs and stoning all the usual contact points.
My impression is that the frame mounted pins do need a little extra whack to be reliable. The difference isn't much though. If the rest of the action is working smoothly, the extra couple pounds of mainspring pressure really isn't noticable.
Good Luck...
Joe
I've purchased 5 S&W revolvers recently, 2 have the frame mounted pin, and have done "trigger jobs" on all of them.
Trigger jobs were really just a way to speed up the normal smoothing that comes with lots of shooting by replacing some springs and stoning all the usual contact points.
My impression is that the frame mounted pins do need a little extra whack to be reliable. The difference isn't much though. If the rest of the action is working smoothly, the extra couple pounds of mainspring pressure really isn't noticable.
Good Luck...
Joe
9mmepiphany
New member
e'ville,
in PPC circles, b4 s&w changed to frame mounted firing pins, the was a fad to hunt out the old .22Jet K-frames because of the frame mounted firing pins
the theory was that you could get a lighter trigger pull/hammer strike,w/better ignition, because the pin would never impact the frame as the hammer fell...now bear in mind that we are talking about improvements on guns that already had DA trigger pulls in the 5-7lb range
i was shooting a python action at the time and i could get a lighter pull with 100% ignition because of the floating firing pin and the longer hammer fall...its more about momentum than mainspring pressure
in PPC circles, b4 s&w changed to frame mounted firing pins, the was a fad to hunt out the old .22Jet K-frames because of the frame mounted firing pins
the theory was that you could get a lighter trigger pull/hammer strike,w/better ignition, because the pin would never impact the frame as the hammer fell...now bear in mind that we are talking about improvements on guns that already had DA trigger pulls in the 5-7lb range
i was shooting a python action at the time and i could get a lighter pull with 100% ignition because of the floating firing pin and the longer hammer fall...its more about momentum than mainspring pressure
Greetings All, I recently purchased a pre-sellout Smith & Wesson model 629-5 .44 Magnum with a 5" barrel.
The
double action, straight from the box is unbelieveable. Most
definitely the "slickest" of any revolver that I have ever
owned, and there has been plenty of them,
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
Thedouble action, straight from the box is unbelieveable. Most
definitely the "slickest" of any revolver that I have ever
owned, and there has been plenty of them,
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
Hey Ala Dan,
I also have a 629S&W, 5"barrel, 44mag. In my opinion this is the sweetest revolver going. It looks good, fires very accurate, and very dependable. You have made a tremendous purchase. I have the full lug, classic model. I would not trade it or sell it for anything. Always look for quality when purchasing a firearm, your life depends on it!!
ED From PA
Semper Fi
I also have a 629S&W, 5"barrel, 44mag. In my opinion this is the sweetest revolver going. It looks good, fires very accurate, and very dependable. You have made a tremendous purchase. I have the full lug, classic model. I would not trade it or sell it for anything. Always look for quality when purchasing a firearm, your life depends on it!!
ED From PA
Semper Fi
How much is enough?
I like this discussion (wondered about the new system myself), but does anyone have any recommendations on:
How heavy should the hammer spring be?
I imagine it would work out to some minimal level required for 100% ignition, plus a margin for uniformity and another margin for a margin of reliability/Murphy factor.
Going for bare 100% reliability is unacceptable for me because I want a margin of safety, and because of many reports I've heard of accuracy being lousy with a too-light hammer fall.
So, how heavy should it be? What's the proper way to measure?
I like this discussion (wondered about the new system myself), but does anyone have any recommendations on:
How heavy should the hammer spring be?
I imagine it would work out to some minimal level required for 100% ignition, plus a margin for uniformity and another margin for a margin of reliability/Murphy factor.
Going for bare 100% reliability is unacceptable for me because I want a margin of safety, and because of many reports I've heard of accuracy being lousy with a too-light hammer fall.
So, how heavy should it be? What's the proper way to measure?
General_Tso
New member
Replacing Floating Firing Pin
Hello, all.
Is it possible to switch from the floating firing pin to the hammer-mounted one?
--Tso
Hello, all.
Is it possible to switch from the floating firing pin to the hammer-mounted one?
--Tso
warhammer357
Moderator
Meanwhile, back in the real world...
First of all, the company that "sold you out" has sold Smith and Wesson too. It is no longer under that management. The moronic limes of Tompkins LTD ran it into the ground after paying a pretty penny for it and sold it at a firesale price.
Second of all, on the topic of the firing pins, I would hazard a guess the change came as many did during Tompkins LTDs run, which was to make the guns cheaper and detract from their looks.
Another good example of this is the casehardened hammers and triggers on the stainless guns. Why do you want a corrosion resistant frame, cylinder and barrell with a corrosion prone hammer and trigger?
First of all, the company that "sold you out" has sold Smith and Wesson too. It is no longer under that management. The moronic limes of Tompkins LTD ran it into the ground after paying a pretty penny for it and sold it at a firesale price.
Second of all, on the topic of the firing pins, I would hazard a guess the change came as many did during Tompkins LTDs run, which was to make the guns cheaper and detract from their looks.
Another good example of this is the casehardened hammers and triggers on the stainless guns. Why do you want a corrosion resistant frame, cylinder and barrell with a corrosion prone hammer and trigger?
VictorLouis
New member
No. Of course, given the right amount of time, money, equipment and a skilled machinist...
General_Tso
New member
Triggers and Hammers
Victor,
Ewww. Sounds a little expensive for my taste.
On a related note, can you buy case-hardened hammers and triggers for a 686 with no internal lock but a floating firing pin?
Thanks,
--Tso
Victor,
Ewww. Sounds a little expensive for my taste.
On a related note, can you buy case-hardened hammers and triggers for a 686 with no internal lock but a floating firing pin?
Thanks,
--Tso
Jim Watson
New member
I think the floating firing pin is part and parcel of the conversion to MIM lockwork. The hammer is molded to net shape and furnace solidified to net dimensions. If there is any followup machine work I can't see it. It would be difficult or impossible to make a mold with the narrow slot and perpendicular pinhole for the hammer nose firing pin. If they took the trouble to mill and drill the MIM part they would be throwing away much of the cost savings they went to MIM for in the first place. Easier just to make a flat hammer face and put a simple round firing pin they can turn out cheaply in the frame.
Cylinder and Slide sells an extra-length firing pin for use in action work. The idea is that a firing pin as long as possible without piercing primers will give good ignition with less spring tension. The first time I heard of that approach was reading about Jerry Moran's work on Pythons in the '70s. I was on his waiting list when he quit working on them and dropped out of sight.
At one time S&W would install milled parts with an action job. I don't know if they sell them loose.
S&W did not use the floating firing pin to go to a transfer bar.
Cylinder and Slide sells an extra-length firing pin for use in action work. The idea is that a firing pin as long as possible without piercing primers will give good ignition with less spring tension. The first time I heard of that approach was reading about Jerry Moran's work on Pythons in the '70s. I was on his waiting list when he quit working on them and dropped out of sight.
At one time S&W would install milled parts with an action job. I don't know if they sell them loose.
S&W did not use the floating firing pin to go to a transfer bar.