Why the 9mm, CZ, HK, autoloaders in general?

[Garand Guy]

Let me start by saying that I am not an autoloader fan. I like wheelguns and nothing chambered lighter than a 38 spl.

Now to the actual questions:

1. What is it about the 9mm that you people love so much? I don't see what the 9mm can do that a 357mag doesn't do better.

2. For the CZ owners: Again, what is about them that you love so much? Many of you wend ballistic on the "Best 9mm Poll" because there were a few Taurus' and no CZ's.

3. For those of you that obviously love your autoloaders: I've just gotta ask "WHY?" If your gun jams or misfires, you have to clear the jam, rack the slide and try again. We wheelgun nuts just pull the trigger again.

Please, help me out here!

(Just for the record, I do own two autoloaders: a Garand I absolutely love, and a Chinese SKS that is a royal piece of "The People's ****")

 

[GodblessAmerica]

GG,
Since this was posted at 1233 AM Sunday, my only advice is to not wake the sleeping giants with posts like this. Do you, by chance, own a helmet and fire/bullet-proof undergarments? I suspect you are going to get flamed soon and often. I am also a revolver nut but I also have Sig, Colt, and Springfield (HK and CZ soon also) written all over me. Diversification is always my plan. Ya often find lots of other cool stuff that way. Best of luck, and free your mind.
G

 

[Garand Guy]

GodblessAmerica

Obviously, I'm not the only one burning the midnight oil here. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the round, I'm just curious why people love these things so much. I concede that bullet technology in this caliber has increased dramatically in recient years.

I just can't bet my life on an autoloader. If you can, then more power to ya!

Think of this thread as a way for 9mm fans to brag about what they have.

(BTW, it's 0133 here on the East Coast)

 

[Wildalaska]

I learned to shoot 40 years ago on a 1911 and on a S&W Model 10...my first handgun was a navy Arms griswold and Gunnison bp revolver, my second a S&W 18...Ive owned hundreds of handguns, split almost 70% auto, 30% revolver.

Currently I won three revolvers, two in 7.62 nagant, one in 44 mag...I own far more autos....

I prefer the 9mm cuz its cheap to shoot and I shoot alot...I can kill anyhting I need to kill just as dead with a 9mm than with a 357

CZ owners love CZs becasue they are cheap and sturdy and accurate. Its a poor mans Hi Power (which is a far better handgun)..Ive owned several CZs and enjoyed them, they just are too big for many hands.

WildtiredandramblinAlaska

 

[CraZkid]

1)9mm is cheap, always available and has proven itself to me as a defensive caliber. +P+ loads with modern HP tech are easily a match for out-dated tech
2)Becuse CZs are quality made firearms at a decent price. A few years back that was the gun to have for IPSC production class. Tauruses are an over-priced peice of crap at any price.
3)If my gun jams or missfires...Well, I have shoot IPSC in some pretty crappy conditions and I have yet to have a malfunction. I also went over 500 rounds without cleaning my CZ-75. It never had a problem. Plus 15 in the stick and one in the hole beats 6 any day.

My questions to you:
1)Why shoot such antiquated technology? I can't see anything that 6 .357 does that 16 9mm can do better.
2)How can you shoot a double action revolver? The best revolver i ever handled had a trigger pull worse than most terrible glock or taurus. I shudder to think about a taurus revolver...
3)I have never placed lower than the best revolver guy at our clubs matches. Other than one guy I saw on the history channel, I can shoot twice as many rounds in half the time while still being as accurate. My question here iso they still time revolver shooters at IPSC with a calendar? I mean c'mon, some of us have places to go. Do you realy need to reload every six shots!?!? Oh, you do. That sucks. Hey, why are you missing? I thought revolvers were more accurate than autoloaders so you needed fewer rounds to complete the course so you would be faster...range master! He looks like he is going to break the 180!

 

[Pietro Beretta]

For those of you that obviously love your autoloaders: I've just gotta ask "WHY?" If your gun jams or misfires, you have to clear the jam, rack the slide and try again. We wheelgun nuts just pull the trigger again.

Thats right all we have to do is rack the slide and try again. If worst comes to worse we have a 1 shot breach loading pistol

If one of the mechanisms in your wheel gun breaks, your screwed with a useless hunk of metal. I guess you could always pistol whip the bad guy into submission

 

[chris in va]

It's not that I 'love it so much', but the 9mm round definitely has many advantages over other rounds.

Cheap to shoot
Low recoil
Most 9mm autoloaders are double stack, so 15-18 rounds
Many are dead nuts reliable and simply don't jam
Even the smallest 9mm can hold 10+1, +P.

As for CZ's, mine has been a love/hate relationship. The ergonomics are great, accuracy/pointability is one of the best i've found and they're reasonably priced. But...my 75 has mag issues still not resolved just yet. Working on it. Ironically the $320 40P has been flawless if a little gritty.

Now if the .45 had similar capacity and a *lot* less recoil...hell yeah I'd use that instead.

 

[281 Quad Cam]

3. For those of you that obviously love your autoloaders: I've just gotta ask "WHY?" If your gun jams or misfires, you have to clear the jam, rack the slide and try again. We wheelgun nuts just pull the trigger again.

Mostly cause good auto-loaders dont jam. 1200-1500 rounds thru my glock 19 and never one single failure to do anything from day one. I know an autoloader "sounds" like it has alot going on each time it fires... But they do it with remarkable reliability. Jams are not frequent, and in most cases, like mine... 100% non-existant, utterly, completely.

This argument made more sense in the 1920's and 1930's... But auto's have LONG ago proven their reliability and performance, so... I dont understand what you're after.

 

[WESHOOT2]

real

Experience taught me that I may not be able to rotate the cylinder of a 'jammed' revolver.

Ever look in a National Guard Armory? Ever notice what caliber ammo is stockpiled all over this country?

Ever wonder why Winchester manufactures over one million 9x19 rds per day?

Ever wonder how much a .355" 115g JHP going 1380fps and a .357" 125g JHP going 1420fps have in common upon impact?

Ever wonder why fellow shooters feel compelled to disregard actual experiences?

Ever wonder how long it will take the US Armed Forces to switch to a Ruger auto chambered in 45 GAP?
Huh? Didja?


Will I never learn?

 

[maximuss]

I dont mean to join debate I just give you my reason,

3. Some/Most of the Police department donot allow revolver any more.

My father-in-law's revolver skip a cartridge quite often.
I can not answer rest of your questions because I am not concerned.

 

[dirksterg30]

1. 9mm ammo is some of the cheapest centerfire available, and if you get the right 9mm ammo, it has about the same performance as .357 magnum. With the 9mm, you can get relatively tame ammo for target shooting, or you can get hard-hitting +P or +P+ ammo for self-defense.

2. I love my CZs because they are totally reliable, accurate, ergonomic, and not too expensive. As someone else said, you're paying for the gun, not the name.

3. I love autoloaders for a number of reasons - higher mag capacity than revolvers, generally thinner overall (easier to conceal). Autoloaders may fail, but revolvers have their problems too. The fact is, any gun can misfire, jam etc. whether it's a revolver or an autoloader. A quality autoloader and a quality revolver are both equal in terms of reliablility, and the same goes for a junk autoloader or revolver.

 

[Stiletto]

1. What is it about the 9mm that you people love so much? I don't see what the 9mm can do that a 357mag doesn't do better.

2. For the CZ owners: Again, what is about them that you love so much? Many of you wend ballistic on the "Best 9mm Poll" because there were a few Taurus' and no CZ's.

3. For those of you that obviously love your autoloaders: I've just gotta ask "WHY?" If your gun jams or misfires, you have to clear the jam, rack the slide and try again. We wheelgun nuts just pull the trigger again.

1. Ballistically, a good 9mm defense load is about as good as a .357M defense load against humans. Also, being a smaller, rimless round (9x19 vs. 9x33) it can be easily loaded into a high-capacity magazine.

2. You could argue that if it hadn't been for the Iron Curtain, the CZ75 would have given the BHP a run for its money in the popularity contest. As it is, the CZ75 (and derivatives, like the P01) remains an extremely popular service pistol.

3. If your gun has an actual mechanical failure (as in something actually BREAKS), well, sucks for you. You should've taken better care of/paid more attention to your gun's internals—if your gun's sufficiently beat to ****, then you shouldn't be carrying it. If there's a malfunction, that's what clearing drills are for. And to minimize the chances of malfunctioning, you should use good ammo (with which you have good familiarity in your gun), take care of your gun, and make sure you don't limpwrist or some nonsense like that. I guess a lot of the latter issues are deprecated with revolvers, but then again, ****ty ammo in a revolver will still not fire/not kill, bad technique will still result in failure to hit things/reduced fire rate, etc..

 

[Webleymkv]

I too am becoming more of a revolver guy and there is nothing that the 9mm can do that the .357 can't do better. The reason I like my CZ 9mm is that an auto is slimmer than a revolver and therefore easier to carry and 9mm is the cheapest centerfire handgun ammo available. I like the CZ because I like its general feel and the option of DA/SA to carry it. The CZ, as I see it takes all the best features of a Browning Hi Power and adds increased controlability and accuracy (because of the slide inside the frame) and the option for DA.

 

[IM_Lugger]

I sometimes wonder why wheelgun fans love those revolvers that much myself…

1. What is it about the 9mm that you people love so much? I don't see what the 9mm can do that a 357mag doesn't do better.

Well 9mm is my favourite calibre, so I guess I should answer that . 9mm is the cheapest ’big’ calibre to shoot, also it’s all you really need for SD. There are hundreds of quality guns chambered for it as well... As for .357; you only get 6 shots, why limit yourself? Also DA trigger? Come on! That’s no fan at all! If you like more power get a 10mm, but there are 9mm loads that are in the range of 450-500ft-lb of muzzle energy. Still not enough power? Multiply that by 15

2. For the CZ owners: Again, what is about them that you love so much? Many of you wend ballistic on the "Best 9mm Poll" because there were a few Taurus' and no CZ's.

Now I don’t own a CZ but they are cheep, good guns that’s why people like them.

3. For those of you that obviously love your autoloaders: I've just gotta ask "WHY?" If your gun jams or misfires, you have to clear the jam, rack the slide and try again. We wheelgun nuts just pull the trigger again.

Are you really worried about autoloaders reliability? I always thought that’s what wheelgun people say to justify their choice… Since the chance of a quality 9mm gun jamming is around 1 in 10,000 or 0.0001%! Is that something you should really worry about? Not to mention that they are a lot easier to clean and maintal (one chaimber to clean).



With all that said I love my new Raging Bull , IMO revolvers are best for powerful cartridges like .44 and up, you don’t need a revolver to get .38spl power; since most semi autos (incl 9mm) can beat that…

 

[shootingaway84]

The 9mm is a good round with hi-hi-cap capabilities. I have 33 rd and 17rd mags for my G17 , Went about 5000 rounds without even takeing it appart or cleaning it, to see how long it would go for. I never had 1 problem with the gun within all that shooting. I would just wipe the outside of the gun after I was done shooting. I finnaly broke down and cleaned it after my friend talked about cleaning his guns all the time. Who knows how long this gun would have shot for. Either way, I trust my life with my glocks. They work everytime.

 

[radshop]

I don't own a CZ, but in response to the other questions:

I like my 357 revolver, but I'm not nearly as accurate with the DA trigger as I am with my 9mm semi-auto. In time, that might change, but it's the case for now.

 

[briang2ad]

Because...

I can throw my CZ down a concrete stair case, or drop it from a tank cupola onto the turret floor, etc., etc. and it will still function as it does now - quite well. If I would do the same with my old 357 highway patrolman, I could bet it would not! Good gun - good accuracy, but maybe not half as rugged as an autoloader. Now, take a good autoloader with a 40 S/W and tell me with 12 rounds and a rugged gun, why you would want a revolver - even in a great caliber like 357!?

I like revolvers - but practically speaking, autoloaders have some huge advantages. I also used to think revolvers never malfunctioned, until years ago, my buddy had an L-frame Smith lock up on some factory ammo, because a primer backed out - the gun went inop - worse than any stovepipe in an auto.

Then try to speed reload - sorry, unless you are a pro, there is no comparison.

 

[Boss Spearman]

I used to be primarily a wheelgunner, but I've found for me, autoloaders are much easier to clean and maintain than revolvers. I find having to clean the cylinder in particular very annoying.
So I've gradually been becoming more of an autoloader fan.

 

[Mannlicher]

Let me help ya out a bit, Garand Guy.

I think you should read more gun magazines, and BBS posts. Thats the way to really learn the answers to your question.

 

[liliysdad]

I can throw my CZ down a concrete stair case, or drop it from a tank cupola onto the turret floor, etc., etc. and it will still function as it does now - quite well. If I would do the same with my old 357 highway patrolman, I could bet it would not! Good gun - good accuracy, but maybe not half as rugged as an autoloader. Now, take a good autoloader with a 40 S/W and tell me with 12 rounds and a rugged gun, why you would want a revolver - even in a great caliber like 357!?

I will disagree there. A good wheelgun, such as the N-frame you speak of, will take that abuse in stride. Trust me, been there, done that.

Both guns have their place. I carry a Sig on duty, and trust it 100%. When I get home, the Sig goes in the clost with the duty rig, and my 586 Smith is what keeps me safe at night. I trust it 100%.

I do not feel any less defended with 6 rounds of .357, or 8 rounds of .45. 9mm, I wont go there, but thats personal preference, nothing more.