Why so much crime in Arizona?

[38snapcaps]

My wife and I are watching the news:
Wife: Is Arizona a good state for gun laws?
Me: Yes, it is very good.
Wife: If people can have guns, why then is there so much crime?
Me: ...............that's a good question..........I don't know.

How would you answer?

 

[jgcoastie]

IIRC, crime in AZ has been declining, although very very slowly, over the past few years as more gun-friendly legislation has been passed.

AZ is also receiving a lot of good and bad press lately, so who knows if the news is reporting accurately.

But, that's just my outside observations, residents could probably give you a more accurate answer.

 

[45Gunner]

I don't believe Arizona has more crime that it used to, it's just that it has become more publicized recently.

Years ago, I used to be a part time resident in a very upscale community. Arizona was among the first to become a "shall issue" State with the requirement that an applicant attend a 16 hour class.

Sheriff Joe was always making headlines with the way he treated prisoners...pink jumpsuits, living in outdoor tents, no cable TV, etc. He was doing his best to ensure that criminals were not going to be repeat offenders or leave AZ altogether when they were released.

What happened in AZ is the immigration problem as it became a haven for illegals and gang activity. I don't think the problem is any worse there than in TX, CA, or NM. AZ has decided to do something about it and it has drawn itself into the limelight.

 

[drail]

Arizona has had an large increase in gang activity. These gangbangers are pouring out of Mexico and to some extent California. The police are dealing with them the best they can but they are becoming overwhelmed. Tucson especially is dangerous after dark. If you drive south from Tucson you can actually see illegals walking through the desert headed north carrying jugs of water. Border Patrol has set up checkpoints on most of the roads but there are far more illegals just walking cross country off of the roads. There is simply too much territory to cover out there. My father retired to Tucson in the 80s and always warned me to be careful traveling through southern AZ. He was not exaggerating from what I saw.

 

[rickyjames]

i live in az. az is a gateway state not only for illegals but also drugs. often it is illegals hauling drugs. this starts a chain reaction because drugs need to do more than be carried across the border to be profitable so there are safe houses for drugs and ilegals all over the state. all the violence associated with drugs infects the state. kidnappings are common as are gang shootouts. while this does not usually affect regular citizens these "safe or drug" houses can be anywhere even in the best parts of town so the violence often spills over and affects the people living in those areas. welcome to the wild wild west.

 

[DanThaMan1776]

I imagine it's the result of Arizona bordering Mexico and being a drug hot-spot... as has already been said.

I go to Arizona about two times a year (usually Tucson, sometimes Phoenix) and I have heard on several occasions gunshots late at night in Tucson. Not to mention you can't drive a hundred yards in Tucson without seeing a young fellow sporting his gang colors (usually red, blue, or purple) so blatantly it scares me. i don't like the feeling I get in tucson.

 

[Destructo6]

Why so much crime in Arizona?

Alien and drug corridor.

If you were to take out all of the crime related to those two activities, from vehicle theft (drug and people transport) to rip off crews/home invasions, AZ would have a different story.

However, you really can't take those out, so there you go.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I agree with the others.

I don't know what Arizona's crime rate is, but whatever it is a lot of it revolves around drugs and is caused by illegal immigrants. Many of them cross the border specifically with intent to distribute drugs, all of them are low level criminals. Once you break the first law, it gets easier to break the next, and the next....

 

[38snapcaps]

Allow me to clarify her question:

We have guns in our home and I have a carry permit. We, and people like us should not be easy prey for criminals, so the crime rate in our state should be low.

I see your point that the illegals and gangs are running wild, but if the law abiding have the means to defend themselves, how can there be high crime?
In Chicago people are defenseless and so the crime rate is thru the roof. A large city in a Constitution honoring state will not have the same problem.

 

[ScottRiqui]

Even in gun-friendly states, the actual percentage of the population with CHL permits is very low (1-3%), and the percentage of CHL holders that carry regularly is even lower.

As a result, you're simply not going to see a huge effect on the crime rate. Frankly, Chicago will continue to be a high-crime city as long as the other factors like population density, education level and economic landscape remain unchanged, even if the Chicago government adopted reasonable gun laws tomorrow.

But by carrying responsibly, you can decrease your chances of becoming a victim drastically.

 

[armoredman]

Not enough people are enjoying thier rights under AZ law, and continue making themselves targets, including our calirefugees who cannot even stand to SEE a gun, much less OWN one. If more thugs and criminals get X'd duringthe commission of violent crimes, fewer of them will be interested in doing that crime, and either change criminal specialties, or move. Note, I did not say go legal/legit, I've worked with criminals too long to believe THAT fantasy.
When the "any US citizen can carry openly or concealed without a government permission slip" on the 29th, I think more people will carry, and I hope that John Lotts prediction comes true again - "More guns, less crime", but it won't work unless people CARRY and SHOOT BACK legally.

 

[buffalo]

I live in Phoenix so i see this first hand everyday. I personally think it's due to the mexican immigrants and the drug cartels using AZ as thier main smuggling route and the fact that they use Phoenix as thier U.S. headquarters. The drug runners is a obvious but i also mention mexican immigrants(mostly illegal) because 99.9% are unskilled and when they can't get a job they resort to crime,plus they drink and drive all the time which contributes to ALOT of deaths whether anyone wants to admit it or not. You just can't allow this many people that have no skills into a country that has no jobs and not expect crime. This is not anything new though as it has been going on for Along time but is just now being brought to the National level. Just my opinion from what i see.

 

[Sefner]

Many posters here have the right idea that crime in Arizona is a function of immigrants and drugs, I'd like to tie it into an answer to OP'd wife's question.

Crime is such a complicated thing. It has an infinite amount of factors that contribute to it: education, police presence, drugs, geography (rural/urban), and probably the biggest: the economy.

As an aside, a LOT of crime, especially gun crime, is "criminal-on-criminal" crime. A very large proportion of murders in this country are gang-related. Gangs kill each other, steal from each other, etc etc. There are a lot of Hispanic gangs in Arizona.

Because it has so many different factors, a single factor, especially one so small in the scope of things, like gun laws will matter very very little when the other factors are so pronounced like they are in Arizona. Do not fall into the logical trap that less gun regulations lessen crime. I could just as easily say that the failure of New Coke is responsible for the election of Bill Clinton and I would be using the same logic.

To put it another way: If you take an area with no police presence, a poorly educated populace, a basically free drug trade, and put it in the middle of a huge city, I don't care what the gun laws are, there will be loads of crime. On the other hand, if you take that same city, give it a booming economy, a better police force, get the drugs off the streets, make sure everyone is a college graduate, and then take away every single gun in that city, there will be very little crime. Ann Arbor, MI is an example of this (sorta). Bottom line: gun laws have very little demonstrable effect on an issue as complex as crime.

So that begs the question: then why do we argue that guns reduce crime? Because it's part of a system of things that will help reduce crime. Guns will stop individual crimes, but not crime as a whole (at least that can't be proven). What do I mean by that? I mean that if a person is getting mugged and the victim is armed and uses his weapon, that individual crime is stopped. But that does not mean that criminal is suddenly a born-again Christian that will never commit a crime again. He just probably won't mug anyone anymore. He will probably switch to stealing cars, or start picking easier targets. Can this affect of more law-abiding citizens being armed, if it has a large enough magnitude, reduce crime rates? Theoretically yes, but that is extremely hard to prove. But to me, that's not why I carry. I carry so that I am able to protect myself and those I care about. I want that criminal to be stealing cars instead of trying to rob me (disclaimer: the point is I'd rather see him performing a non-violent crime than beating me unconscious into the pavement for my money). That is why we argue for more lax gun laws.

So the logic that more guns = less crime, which is a premise for OP's Wife's question, is very shaky. A better thing to look at is the demographics of the area, not necessarily the gun laws, when looking at crime.

 

[ClayInTx]

Gangs killing gangs is a crime and it gets into the statistics.

There are lies.
There are damn lies.
There are statistics.

We argue that honest persons having guns decreases crime because honest persons having guns decreases REAL crime.

 

[DanThaMan1776]

We understand the question, snapcap. We are collectively saying that it's cause AZ has more badguys that it has more crime. Consider this analogy. You have a forest fire spreading rapidly. You have 10 hoses running in the average state (michigan, with conceal carriers being the hoses and the thugs being the fire). The fire is far more controlled than, say, Chicago (where I live), where there is only one hose (cops).

However, Arizona happens to have gasoline raining from the sky (drug cartels and thugs from mexico) which causes the tide of good and evil to sway a little. So even with ten hoses they are a tad overrun. If everyone took up a hose, they would be better off.

Ask your wife where she thinks the state would be, crime-wise, if it didn't legally allow concealed carry :barf:

I can't imagine that... makes me sick.

 

[Tombstonejim]

My little search says there is a lot more violent crime in Michigan than Arizona

Crime Statistics > Violent crime (most recent) by state
VIEW DATA: Totals
Definition Source Printable version

Bar Graph Pie Chart Map


Showing latest available data. Rank States Amount
# 1 California: 194,120
# 2 Florida: 128,795
# 3 Texas: 121,378
# 4 New York: 83,966
# 5 Illinois: 69,498
# 6 Michigan: 56,778
# 7 Pennsylvania: 54,665
# 8 Tennessee: 45,907
# 9 Georgia: 44,106
# 10 North Carolina: 42,124
# 11 Ohio: 40,209
# 12 Maryland: 38,110
# 13 South Carolina: 33,078
# 14 Missouri: 31,880
# 15 Arizona: 30,916
# 16 New Jersey: 30,672
# 17 Louisiana: 29,919
# 18 Massachusetts: 28,775
# 19 Washington: 22,120
# 20 Virginia: 21,568
# 21 Indiana: 19,876
# 22 Alabama: 19,557
# 23 Colorado: 18,616
# 24 Nevada: 18,508
# 25 Oklahoma: 17,803
# 26 Minnesota: 16,123
# 27 Wisconsin: 15,783
# 28 Arkansas: 15,506
# 29 New Mexico: 12,572
# 30 Kansas: 11,748
# 31 Kentucky: 11,063
# 32 Oregon: 10,373
# 33 Connecticut: 9,841
# 34 District of Columbia: 8,772
# 35 Mississippi: 8,691
# 36 Iowa: 8,455
# 37 Delaware: 5,817
# 38 Utah: 5,722
# 39 West Virginia: 5,087
# 40 Nebraska: 4,983
# 41 Alaska: 4,610
# 42 Idaho: 3,625
# 43 Hawaii: 3,615
# 44 Rhode Island: 2,429
# 45 Montana: 2,397
# 46 New Hampshire: 1,824
# 47 Maine: 1,526
# 48 South Dakota: 1,340
# 49 Wyoming: 1,234
# 50 Vermont: 852
# 51 North Dakota: 813
Total: 1,417,745
Weighted average: 27,798.9









SOURCE: Bureau of Justice Statistics
See also
Related links:
Subscribe to our Crime feeds (stats: RSS / Atom, factoids: RSS / Atom)
Save this page to del.icio.us / furl / your bookmarks

 

[ScottRiqui]

That list is misleading because it's not normalized for population (i.e. violent crimes per 100,000 residents.) For instance, you could slaughter every fifth person in Alaska and still have fewer total violent crimes than California.

If you normalize the data, Michigan has 513 violent crimes per 100k residents, while Arizona is only a little bit behind at 481 per 100k (both figures for 2008).

 

[kozak6]

Yeah.

Phoenix is the kidnapping capital of the United States, but almost every single case is related to human and drug smuggling.

 

[SamW]

We have guns in our home and I have a carry permit. We, and people like us should not be easy prey for criminals, so the crime rate in our state should be low.

Because we, as a society, do nothing about crime or acts leading up to crime. Instead we, as a society, either ignore it or call the police. There is no personalization of the crime being committed. At least, that's what I believe. With that being said, I don't advocate being a vigilante but working within the law to stop crime.

 

[Jim March]

I've lived in Tucson almost four years now. There's not a lot of street violence at all...very safe place to walk around, day or night. This is however one of the top land smuggling routes into the US of both drugs and illegals. The drugs tend to pass through Tucson to the north, with Phoenix as the main distribution point. The roads to the west from Tucson are too small and too tightly controlled, while I10 from Phoenix to LA is just wide open.