Why didn't the P228/P229 take off in popularity like the P226? Was it too early for the concealed carry game? Lots of LEO surplus P226 in 9 and .40 and lately P229 E2 in .40. Seems like the P228 was overlooked for some reason. I'd like a surplus one but they're almost non-existent on the secondary market.
Why P228 never took off like P226?
- Thread starter veprdude
- Start date
The 40SW and its rise in use by LE in the US is a major factor in why you see so many P229s on the market in that cartridge. The P228 was also in production for less time than the P229 and I do not believe the P228 was ever produced stateside. It was either imported as a complete pistol or assembled from imported parts. There are just a lot more P229s out there.
Years ago there were a bunch of import P228s that were surplussed from European police agencies. People bought them. P228s show up on occasion around me, but their popularity means that when they show up they sell quickly and people tend to hold onto them.
Years ago there were a bunch of import P228s that were surplussed from European police agencies. People bought them. P228s show up on occasion around me, but their popularity means that when they show up they sell quickly and people tend to hold onto them.
Electrod47
New member
Bought my Sig 228 9mm in mid 90's German made.
And its still doing the job night after night
And its still doing the job night after night
bamaranger
New member
history
The P228's demise can likely be traced to the intoduction of the P229 and the .40 S&W ctg. The P229 was made with a forged and milled slide, while the P228 and all its kin had stamped slides, with a breech block and associated parts pinned in place. The milled P229 could handle the .pressures developed by the .40, while the stamped and pinned pistols could not, or at least likely not for long and were never offered in .40 or .357SIG either. When SIG started offering the milled P229 in 9mm, the P228 was discontinued shortly thereafter. Eventually the full size P220/226 got milled slides as well and became available in .40 and I suppose .357SIG. My understanding is that the entire stamped and pinned pistols were phased out, and all Pseries received milled slides as production continued.
The P228 had a lot going for it. It was likely the first compact 9mm of the wondernine era, preceding the SW 469 and the Glock 19. It was accepted internationally, and here in the US was adopted as the M11 by the military, , and a number of Fed agencies picked up the P228 as well. Then the FBI had its Miami shoot out, the 9mm was condemned, the .40 arose, and the lone SIG offering at the time, the P229, was Johnny On the Spot.
I was fortunate enough to be an instructor/armorer in that era with the NPS. As we transitioned from revolvers to semiauto (SIGS) everybody initially got the P228-9mm. A policy was instituted to allow a one time career choice of other SIG pistols once one had transitioned from the revolver to the SIG P228. One could retain the P228, or select the P225, P226, P229 or P220.
The P229 was the only offering in .40, as all other P guns were still stamped and pinned. The 9mm was largely abandoned, and most staff, some 1300 sworn, chose the P229-.40, or the P220-.45. There were a few P228's retained, a few more P226-9mm and a smattering of the single stack P225's.
As the compact 9mm crowd were largely administrative and aged out, the P228 and the P225 disappeared as well. The full size P226-9mm hung on a bit longer, but when the full size guns got milled frames and were approved and offered in .40, they became immediatley popular and there were never enough in the academy armory to go around.
The NPS has retired the P-series as well and now carries the P320. I am uncertain if there are options in caliber as there were in my era. The individual choice policy was a headache, requiring multiple holsters and mag pouches, and 3 calibers of handgun ammo on hand at the park level. But the staff of my day carried the SIG and caliber of their choice (within policy) and scores and confidence in use increased agency wide.
The P228's demise can likely be traced to the intoduction of the P229 and the .40 S&W ctg. The P229 was made with a forged and milled slide, while the P228 and all its kin had stamped slides, with a breech block and associated parts pinned in place. The milled P229 could handle the .pressures developed by the .40, while the stamped and pinned pistols could not, or at least likely not for long and were never offered in .40 or .357SIG either. When SIG started offering the milled P229 in 9mm, the P228 was discontinued shortly thereafter. Eventually the full size P220/226 got milled slides as well and became available in .40 and I suppose .357SIG. My understanding is that the entire stamped and pinned pistols were phased out, and all Pseries received milled slides as production continued.
The P228 had a lot going for it. It was likely the first compact 9mm of the wondernine era, preceding the SW 469 and the Glock 19. It was accepted internationally, and here in the US was adopted as the M11 by the military, , and a number of Fed agencies picked up the P228 as well. Then the FBI had its Miami shoot out, the 9mm was condemned, the .40 arose, and the lone SIG offering at the time, the P229, was Johnny On the Spot.
I was fortunate enough to be an instructor/armorer in that era with the NPS. As we transitioned from revolvers to semiauto (SIGS) everybody initially got the P228-9mm. A policy was instituted to allow a one time career choice of other SIG pistols once one had transitioned from the revolver to the SIG P228. One could retain the P228, or select the P225, P226, P229 or P220.
The P229 was the only offering in .40, as all other P guns were still stamped and pinned. The 9mm was largely abandoned, and most staff, some 1300 sworn, chose the P229-.40, or the P220-.45. There were a few P228's retained, a few more P226-9mm and a smattering of the single stack P225's.
As the compact 9mm crowd were largely administrative and aged out, the P228 and the P225 disappeared as well. The full size P226-9mm hung on a bit longer, but when the full size guns got milled frames and were approved and offered in .40, they became immediatley popular and there were never enough in the academy armory to go around.
The NPS has retired the P-series as well and now carries the P320. I am uncertain if there are options in caliber as there were in my era. The individual choice policy was a headache, requiring multiple holsters and mag pouches, and 3 calibers of handgun ammo on hand at the park level. But the staff of my day carried the SIG and caliber of their choice (within policy) and scores and confidence in use increased agency wide.
The P220 was developed as a full-size, single-stack 9mm with a carbon steel folded slide and was adopted in 1975 by the Swiss as the P75. The P225 was a compact pistol similar to the P220 developed for the German pistol trials of 1976 and adopted by the Germans as the P6.
The P226 was similar to a double-stack P220 and was developed for the US pistol competition that resulted in the selection of the Beretta 92SBF in 1985 as the M9. The P228 was a compact pistol similar to the P226 and was adopted by the US in 1989 as the M11.
Two things took place in the early 1990s to change the Sig line of pistols. First, the .40S&W cartridge was developed and began to be adopted by police forces in response to an FBI finding that police needed more powerful handgun ammo. Existing 9mm designs, particularly Sig's folded steel slides, needed to be beefed up to handle the .40S&W. Second, with then-recent technical advances and cost reductions in CNC milling, Sig chose to move to CNC milling rather than replace the worn-out tooling for making folded carbon steel slides.
The P220 and P226 transitioned from folded carbon steel slides to milled stainless steel slides with no change in model designation. The P228 became the P229 with a milled stainless slide. The P225 was eventually replaced in 1996 with the P239, a new compact, single-stack, multi-caliber design.
To address their relative popularity, the P228 and P229 models were not developed until more than a decade after their full-size predecessors and after the bulk of police and military conversions to mostly full-size "Wondernine" pistols had already taken place.
The P226 was similar to a double-stack P220 and was developed for the US pistol competition that resulted in the selection of the Beretta 92SBF in 1985 as the M9. The P228 was a compact pistol similar to the P226 and was adopted by the US in 1989 as the M11.
Two things took place in the early 1990s to change the Sig line of pistols. First, the .40S&W cartridge was developed and began to be adopted by police forces in response to an FBI finding that police needed more powerful handgun ammo. Existing 9mm designs, particularly Sig's folded steel slides, needed to be beefed up to handle the .40S&W. Second, with then-recent technical advances and cost reductions in CNC milling, Sig chose to move to CNC milling rather than replace the worn-out tooling for making folded carbon steel slides.
The P220 and P226 transitioned from folded carbon steel slides to milled stainless steel slides with no change in model designation. The P228 became the P229 with a milled stainless slide. The P225 was eventually replaced in 1996 with the P239, a new compact, single-stack, multi-caliber design.
To address their relative popularity, the P228 and P229 models were not developed until more than a decade after their full-size predecessors and after the bulk of police and military conversions to mostly full-size "Wondernine" pistols had already taken place.
Last edited:
Jim Watson
New member
I figure the P228 was meant to get Sig some USGI sales as the M11 when Beretta did not care enough to offer a "compact" model.
I like the P228 and would cheerfully trade my P220 or even my P225 for one.
I like the P228 and would cheerfully trade my P220 or even my P225 for one.
Jim Watson said:
Beretta did make compact models of the 92: SB/L ('84-'86); F/L ('85-'89), and; FS/L ('90-present). Beretta even made a single-stack (Type M) version of the compact L pistols.
Jim Watson
New member
I know Beretta MADE compact versions of the 92, but they did not OFFER one for M11 selection.
Jim Watson
New member
I had never heard that before.
I would have picked the Beretta for commonality of working parts and manual of arms unless it was a real dud.
I would have picked the Beretta for commonality of working parts and manual of arms unless it was a real dud.
stephen426
New member
@mk70ss,
Do you know what year your P229 was made? Mine has cocking serrations only on the lower part of the slide and only in the back. It looks like the one below. Are they still using milled stainless steel slides?
Do you know what year your P229 was made? Mine has cocking serrations only on the lower part of the slide and only in the back. It looks like the one below. Are they still using milled stainless steel slides?
dogtown tom
New member
The genuine military issue M11 is a Sig 228.
The M11a1 is a commercial Sig 229 with fake "military markings".
They are not the same pistol.
bamaranger
New member
reliability
I'd mentioned previously that back in the day, I ran several transition classes from revolver to auto with the SIG P228. Additionally, we had bi-annual qualification courses for a period of about 3 years with the P228 as the rest of the agency got caught up with autos. Once the entire nationwide staff had transitioned to the P228, the "choose" era began.
During that period of transition and the subsequent era with the P228 being the single duty pistol, I was present for a lot of ammo being fired. Transition training went 4-5 days, and participants fired close to 1000 rounds apiece. Training was done with 124 grain NATO ball, and the duty/qual load was a 147 gr JHP. I've put in print previously an estibate of how many rounds I'd witnessed and don't want to contradict myself, but I believe the figure I've quoted before and will offer now is 50,000 rds plus. If I recall correctly, I observed 2 failures to feed, both with pistols that had seen considerable shooting the day before (or longer) and were not cleaned.
I liked the P228 and have always had an eye open for one at a decent price, but have not seen one for which I am willing to shell out . It would be interesting to determine how many P228's went into federal service, how many became M11's, leaving "X" for civilian sales.
I'd mentioned previously that back in the day, I ran several transition classes from revolver to auto with the SIG P228. Additionally, we had bi-annual qualification courses for a period of about 3 years with the P228 as the rest of the agency got caught up with autos. Once the entire nationwide staff had transitioned to the P228, the "choose" era began.
During that period of transition and the subsequent era with the P228 being the single duty pistol, I was present for a lot of ammo being fired. Transition training went 4-5 days, and participants fired close to 1000 rounds apiece. Training was done with 124 grain NATO ball, and the duty/qual load was a 147 gr JHP. I've put in print previously an estibate of how many rounds I'd witnessed and don't want to contradict myself, but I believe the figure I've quoted before and will offer now is 50,000 rds plus. If I recall correctly, I observed 2 failures to feed, both with pistols that had seen considerable shooting the day before (or longer) and were not cleaned.
I liked the P228 and have always had an eye open for one at a decent price, but have not seen one for which I am willing to shell out . It would be interesting to determine how many P228's went into federal service, how many became M11's, leaving "X" for civilian sales.