Why not use Teflon-containing gun oils in the bore?

[Andy Chadwick]

My first post!

I've heard some folks say that it's not good to use any kind of oil that contains Teflon in the barrel of a gun. What do ya'll think? Why not? What problems would that cause, if any?

 

[griz]

Welcome to TFL!

As to the teflon oil, I don't know. I like to clean ANY oil from the bore before firing, but I can't imagine a reason why teflon would be bad in the barrel.

 

[rocko]

Only thing I can think of is that the solid teflon particles that are suspended in such an oil has even greater potential to increase pressure to dangerous levels than normal oil. You should run a patch or two through your bore prior to shooting to clean up any oil no matter what kind it is.

I guess the theory behind using a teflon additive in gun oil is that when shooting the gun, the bullet will force the teflon particles into the various microscopic imperfections in the bore, which would create a smoother, more uniform bore. However, the fact that there is anything in the bore that the bullet needs to force is bad...

Rocko

 

[C.R.Sam]

Probably won't hurt a thing.
NO oil, teflon or otherwise, in chamber tho. That can hurt you.

Sam

 

[artech]

The AR-15/M-16 is designed to be used with a teflon-oil such as CLP with Breakfree. Bore, chamber, all over. However, residual oil in bore or chamber is a bad thing. I do my cleaning so as to leave the thinnest possible film of oil on the barrel innards, and have never had any trouble on any of my other rifles. Hope this helps.

 

[Art Eatman]

Well, there's always some mouse-milk peddler trying to make folks think that having teflon in oil is gonna do all manner of miraculous things.

Mostly of course, car engines. Doesn't work. The Texas Highway Department's Materials and Tests Lab tested several for possible fleet use by the state. Garbage.

I did a pretty thorough test on one brand of mouse milk, and it was a waste of time--but at least the "true believers" only stiffed me the final 1/3 of my money.

Even Teflon is gonna make Bad Stuff at 2,000+ degrees Fairenhoho and 50,000 psi.

The usual description of the process by which it's supposed to bond to metal is great--if you believe in magic, astrology and the goodness of Clinton.

, Art

 

[ctdonath]

Why would you oil the bore? (other than for long-term storage - that's a different issue.)

I thought the point of cleaning the bore was to get EVERYTHING out of the bore; adding oil is adding something that's hard to remove (and dangerous in sufficient yet minute quantities).

Actually, with modern non-corrosive ammo, cleaning the bore is usually unnecessary (unless something managed to get into the bore, like a drop of oil): each shot practically cleans out the crud left from the last shot. My long-range rifle instructor has 40,000+ rounds through his primary rifle without a single bore cleaning. (The chamber, however, is mirror-polished every 25 rounds. Not cleaning the bore is different from not cleaning anything.)

 

[Bogie]

I don't use it. Because most match barrel manufacturers say not to use it.

After cleaning, I introduce a lightly oiled patch into the bore. I do not shoot a "dry" bore for the first shot after cleaning.

 

[Badger Arms]

I have used EEZOX mostly for the last 15 years or so. Never had any problems. It's not teflon based. When I was up in Alaska for 8 years, I heard a few anecdotes about Break-Free (used by the Air Force, Marines, and I believe the Army too. These rumors centered around the properties of Teflon in below zero conditions. It tends to gum up mechanisms and loses most if not all of its good properties in this weather. I understand this affliction is not suffered by oils (although they do lose properties gradually with cold weather). It is also not a factor with EEZOX, PTFE or other advanced synthetics.

In the bore? No problems. A gun with Teflon in the bore will still go bang. One with Teflon in the action might not when it's really cold. My 2 cents.

 

[uglygun]

The person pointing out that match grade barrel makers recommend not to use it is on to the main reason I've always seen outlined for not using Teflon or that PTFE stuff in bores, accuracy.


This is coming from the utmost knitpicking types of shooters who want the bore to remain as consistent as possible. Their argument is that cleaning with solvents is fine for copper and powder fouling but it won't go after Teflon if you should run a swab of one of those lubricant oils through the bore like CLP, does it matter in an AR15 or a hunting rifle, not likely. But to the knitpickers it does matter, maybe it's enough to imbed some teflon into one little knook/cranny of the bore's rifling so that it makes some minor inconsistency, to them it's enough reason to not use it.


I'm sure it's a lot like moly, after you make the switch to moly if you ever want to return to non-moly coated bullets you've got to do a lot of shooting to "shoot out" the moly before a once accurate non-moly bullet load will return to it's pre-moly group sizes. Shooting with all that teflon particulate crap in the bore could maybe throw off groups for some miniscule amount of time which is important to the match shooter or to the person looking to get down to the .2s with their rifle.


I have only one gun that I don't use teflon in the bore, all the rest of them CLP is usually what I use at the end of the cleaning process.

 

[MAD DOG]

Here's a news flash for y'all:

Teflon is ...gasp... PTFE (PolyTetraFluoroEthylene)

Teflon is a registered trademark, a name only.

The problem comes when PTFE/teflon is subjected to very high temperatures, as seen in gunbores during firing.
The teflon outgasses hydrofluoric acid as a combustion breakdown product.
The acid eats the chrome and/or rifling out of the bore over time, causes stress fractures, pitting etc. Exposure to acid is bad for metal.
Hardchrome as found in AR15/m16 barrels is particularly susceptible to this.

The current Mil spec formula for CLP no longer contains teflon.

 

[Badger Arms]

Where can I find the exact Military Specification. I have used gallons of CLP and all of that crap had teflon in it. If they've recently changed the mil-spec, I'd like to see what the new mil-spec is and how it's applied.

 

[yankytrash]

I was going to say exactly what MAD DOG said. He took words right out my mouth.

The caplikornio injucts with the forjistane, thus horrendifying the shucktiposition of referendum. Kapish?

 

[LIProgun]

Badger, I don't have a pointer to the spec, but the military spec for CLP is a performance spec, not a set formula. The prime contractor for CLP is Royal Lubricants, and their ROYCO 634 does not use teflon. ROYCO 634 is also rebranded as Remington's CLP.

The older formula for BreakFree CLP -- which was at one time the military contractor for CLP -- did use teflon. The reformulated BreakFree CLP as currently produced by Armor Holdings does not use teflon, IIRC.

 

[Badger Arms]

I done been learned. Things change. Would like to hear what Break-Free switched to instead of Teflon.

 

[S.F.S]

I have looked on 2 bottles of Break-Free that I recently purchased with in the last 2 months and they both include PTFE.
I have used both Rem-oil and Break-free with no problems what so ever. I usually use Rem-oil for cleaning trigger assemblies and then blow it off with compressed air. Also I use it for putting a thin coat in the bore and cylinders and after about 5 minutes I will run a dry patch thru it for any excess. I use Break-Free mainly for the actions on my rifles and shotguns and the frame and rails of a semi-auto.
I recently used Tetra gun oil and was well pleased on how well it lubricated and left a slick coating behind.

Scott

 

[Badger Arms]

So if Teflon is simply PTFE and Break-Free has PTFE then Break-Free has Teflon!!! Does the Mil-Spec specify that it has to be Teflon / PTFE free or what?

 

[S.F.S]

Badger,
As far as I know, No they do not require it to be PTFE or Teflon free.
Royal Lubricants CLP has got the contract now since they under bidded (Armor Holding) owner of Break-Free. I also heard something about that since you didn't have to shake it up was a benefit, since they were forgetting to shake Break-Free up. Royal Lubricants contains no PTFE or Teflon and whatever is in Break-Free to require you to shake it, with Break-free you do have to shake it or the ingredient will seperate. If you look at Break-Free in a clear bottle after it sits you will see what I mean.

Scott

 

[LIProgun]

I checked with BreakFree and I stand corrected:

The CLP formula has contained approximately 1% by weight PTFE since the original development in 1975. It helps with lubrication by reducing the stick-slip problem with reciprocating mechanisms, such as the M16 and helps reduce wear. It also provides an improvement when running Salt Spray corrosion studies.

- Don Yoder, Technical Support

And I agree with S.F.S. that the milspec is silent on PTFE. As a performance spec, you can think of it as specifying what the product must do, and not how it gets the job done.

 

[Rome]

Forget Teflon: Use Militec

About two years ago, I tried this new; "high tech" lube called Militec 1 and have never looked back. It simply works great. And, it's been accepted (according to the spec sheets) by the military as a suitable lube for all small arms.

Militec recommends that you strip you weapon of any and all other lubes to clean them thoroughly. Then you apply this stuff. Yes, it's designed to penetrate the fissures in the metal and provide a "dry lube" scenario. Even when it goes away to the touch, it's still there working. I know. I've used it in every single one of my old military semi-autos from the Tokarev to the CETME. It just works great. And, because is doesn't leave a wet residue like grease or regular oil, nothing is attracted to it like dirt or dust.

In addition, they do recommend that you swab the barrel and then swab it again. You're not supposed to make it wet, but just coat it. This stuff is designed to work under high pressure and temperature. It's absorbed into the barrel metal fissures and when you go to clean after shooting, it's a piece of cake to clean. Stuff just comes right off. In addition, and I know I'll take some flak for this: the rounds actually do travel at a higher velocity due to reduced friction. This has been attested to if you go to the website and read the reviews.

Here's the link: http://www.laniganperformance.com/The_Ultimate_Weapon_Lubricant.html

Look guys and girls, old milsurpers like me die hard and like to use the "original" stuff on their rifles. I've never regretted going to this lube, however, and use it in everything I own, including my pistols. (There's a big improvement in performance there)

Let me also be clear that I'm just a collector like you. I do not own stock or have any connection to this product in any way. I just like sharing something with you all that really does work the way it's advertised. Go to the website and read the military recommendations and the other pro testimonials. I've shared this with other shooters who have all loved it too. Next gun show, look for it for yourselves.

Hope this helps a little. Our local "big" gun shop sells gallons of this stuff and can't keep it in stock. They're really big into military, too.

Rome