Why not make a "convertible" snubby?

[Eric Larsen]

Currently there is a thread about new production titanium/scandium 9mm lightweight snubs...good idea in my book.

But I thought Id take this one a little farther.
Basically the 9mm and 357/38 special are within .002" in bullet diameter. Dimensionally, .357" vs .355 typically is noted in reloading manuals and such.

Why wouldnt making a convertible cylinder that houses 9mm work in a 357 calibered gun? The cylinder could be designed with moonclip cutouts already and could easily be made for quite a few guns with minor changes...a couple of tweaks for J frames and another for SP's etc.

Is there a reason this wouldnt work that Im not considering?
If production #'s were sufficient, cost would be quite reasonable and would give us all another choice for those who wanted it.

Personally, Id love to be able to shoot 9mm in my little snubby.
$6.00 a box for range ammo is a pretty convincing reason all by itself....Shoot well

 

[MrAcheson]

First the reason there aren't 9mm snubbies in the first place is that demand is low. Why shoot 9mm when .38 +P is so ballistically similar out of a snubby. There are a few folks that sell convertable guns, but not a lot. Ruger makes some single actions and I believe a few others do too.

Secondly and more importantly 9mm accuracy out of a .357 barrel stinks. That 0.002 really matters because the 9mm slug won't grip the barrel rifling properly. So to get good accuracy out of the 9mm convertable snubby you would have to reload and your revolver 9mm ammo would probably not shoot well out of a real 9mm firearm. In the end is it really worth it?

 

[Grapeshot]

Eric, you read my mind.

Just yesterday I was buying .38 and 9mm ammo at Wal-Mart for plinking purposes. It was indescribably painful to pay $9 for 50 .38's and then pay $11 for 100 9mm's.

It just seemed kinda crazy.

So how about it, any Ruger 357/9mm convertible shooters out there? How is the accuracy of the 9mm?

 

[aruid]

Medusa

I wanted a Medusa revolver for the same reason. I think the price is a little high.


"The Medusa chambers, fires, and extracts 25 different cartridges in the .38/9mm/.357 ammunition range."

it shoots

.380 ACP, 9 mm Long, 38 Colt Super,
.380 Revolver, 9 mm Luger, 38 Long Colt,
9 X 18 Police Ultra, 9 mm Mauser, 38 Mid-range,
9 mm Browning Patronen(long), 9mm Parabellum, 38 Short Colt,
9 mm Export, 9 mm Rimmed, 38 S & W,
9 mm Glisenti, 9 mm Steyr, 38 Special "Plus-P",
9 mm Kurz (short), 9 mm Win Mag, 38 Special "Plus-P-Plus",
9 mm Largo, 38 Auto, 357 Magnum
Etc...

What is the difference between 9mm parabellum and 9mm luger anyway?

If you think about it its the cylinder that allows the gun to shoot so many calibers. It would be nice to have a "medusa cylinder" to put on a .357 you already own.

http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/out/9811BOFAP.html This article states that the gun can fire 104 different cartridges!

ARUID

 

[Jim Watson]

I have seen many reports of original 9mm barrels that measured up to .359". I don't think a .357" barrel will handicap it too much, certainly not at the ranges of interest here.

Objective test reports I have read for the Medusa say that it is an interesting concept, roughly executed. They started out doing conversions on S&Ws but went on to make whole guns.

Tom Kilhoffer will convert a 686 to take 9x whatever and .38 Super in clips. He says it will still shoot .38 and .357 but the brass will be bulged too bad to reload. Richard Heinie likes his.

 

[James K]

I have two Ruger convertible Black Hawks, 9mm/.357 and .45ACP/.45 Colt. Accuracy is good and in both revolvers, the two cartridges (at handgun range) shoot into the same group.

The convertible suggestion is actually not bad at all, if there is a demand. The older 9mm revolvers had problems because they tried to make them so they didn't need moon clips, and that created complexities. (They were intended for countries where the police wanted revolvers, but the military supplied the ammunition.)

One minor drawback is that removing the cylinder of a DA revolver requires removing a screw or (Ruger) removing the trigger guard, not simply pulling the base pin as on the SA.

For Aruid: 9mm Luger, 9mm Parabellum, and 9x19 are all the same cartridge.

There is a lot of hype in the Medusa list. Several of the cartridges mentioned are really the same dimensionally, like the .38 Super and .38 Auto. The .38 Short Colt is the same diameter as the .38 Special and .357. Listing .38 Midrange, .38 Special +P and .38 Special +P+ is hype; they are all the same case.

I think a chamber with a slight taper, a "shelf" for supporting the rimmed cases, a groove in the shelf for semi-rimmed, and using moon clips for the rimless rounds should allow all those cartridges to be used. Not difficult, but something of a trick even so. I really see no need for such versatility, especially if it comes with a high price tag.

Of course, some of the cartridge cases will bulge (.380 ACP certainly will), and some rounds will be less accurate, but there is no real problem.

Jim

 

[4V50 Gary]

Wouldn't mind one myself. A nice Ruger or S&W with a drop-in cylinder or adaption via moon-clips. Vesatile.

 

[jmlv]

JIM, YOU HAVE CONTACT INFO ON TOM?

THAT SOUNDS LIKE A NEAT CONVERSION. ALSO WHAT WERE THE COSTS INVOLVED IN THE CONVERSION(586 TO 9MM) THANKS FOR THE INFO.

 

[MrAcheson]

According to that popular mechanics article, the medusa gets 2" to 2.5" groups at 25 feet. Thats in an L frame gun with a 4" barrel. Not exactly target shooter accuracy here.

Their website claims that this is supposed to be 25 yards but in my opinion their credibility isn't very good. Their list of the 37 calibers the Medusa will fire contains multiple instances of the same case under different names. They claim hardnesses of 28 and 36 rockwell for parts of their gun, but they never say which rockwell scale they are using (there are multiple) nor is either of these numbers particularly hard for steel if they are using the Rockwell C scale (which is most likely).

 

[Eric Larsen]

Just for curiosity..I calipered a couple of 9mm and 357 rnds. They all measure from .356-.358" typically. IMO, a 9mm would be fairly accurate from a .357 barrel. As far as the .002" differential in O.D.'s..I agree with the point if soft lead was being used as the bullet. With def. JHP's and Copper jackets..In my thinking the lands and grooves would give sufficient cutting into the copper for pretty good accuracy. I COULD BE WRONG Id still like to try it....the SP would be perfect. Cylinder changes arent EASY but they are not hard either....just a thought. Shoot well

 

[BigG]

The convertible idea is good, but a snubnose is anything but a fun gun. Nobody takes a snub and plinks away for hours like they do a belt sized 38.

The snub with an extra cylinder seems like an extravagance that nobody would pay for given the down and dirty nature of the snub's intended use. JMHO

I also have a 9mm Model 940, made of stainless steel and heavy as a brick. That woudl be ideal in airweight or titanium but the 940 has been discontinued so I guess S&W sees no market for the combination.